worst red light debate, again!

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

It is undoubtedly "LAME" when suggesting a fix for an inequitable rule that's been with us for 47 years, is attacked as "whining."

Were they whining when they approached NHRA to weigh the drivers with the cars, to stop the inequity of an advantage the lightweight drivers had over the big guys?

I don't think so...

Were they whining when the "first car to break out" rule was in effect, and needed to be a "worst breakout rule?"

I don't think so...

This "first redlight" rule is at least as bad as either of those, but pointing it out and suggesting that it be changed so that EVERYONE has the same chance to red light, is "whining."

Sounds like semantics (look it up, ED) at its worst...

But the absolute worst part of all of that "you're whining" rhetoric, is that NOBODY who writes on that side of the ledger, ever has posted ONE reason not to change it; instead, they choose to KILL THE MESSENGER with character assassinations and claims of "whining."

It's so transparent...

Thank you Bill. Jim

[Jim B]

OK Bill I've gotta ask. I understand your position on the starting line redlight inequity but do you advocate fixing a potential breakout correction at the finish line? Example: Car A fouls by .002 and car B fouls by .005. Under your revision is car A now the final and undisputed winner? (barring crossing the centerline) At the other end car A runs out by .005 (gets there first) and car B runs out by .001 Since the total combined infractions (.007 vs .006) would give the win back to car B... is that what you advocate? How would you treat a single breakout run that possibly was a result of chasing a worse redlight? (Car A runs out by .002 and Car B runs dead on (doesn't break out) but has a worse (.005 to .004) total infraction.

[bigshow2966]

Why don't we just go back to the way it used to be in the '70's at US 30. Both cars redlight or break-out, they both lose. Double red in the final, both get 2nd place money. Saves money in the long run.

Oh yeah, we can also go back to paying only 4 places. Round money is for sissies.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Jim B

OK Bill I've gotta ask. I understand your position on the starting line redlight inequity but do you advocate fixing a potential breakout correction at the finish line? Example: Car A fouls by .002 and car B fouls by .005. Under your revision is car A now the final and undisputed winner? (barring crossing the centerline) At the other end car A runs out by .005 (gets there first) and car B runs out by .001 Since the total combined infractions (.007 vs .006) would give the win back to car B... is that what you advocate? How would you treat a single breakout run that possibly was a result of chasing a worse redlight? (Car A runs out by .002 and Car B runs dead on (doesn't break out) but has a worse (.005 to .004) total infraction.

Bill's proposal has nothing to do with breakouts.
Both car leave the line...Worse red light comes . Win light comes on in other lane...Race over...Not that complicated.
Maybe it is?

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by cicero819

Let's make it fair on everybody, brackets to class.

The naysayers are right, just as you said; it will never change, not because it's not a better way to race, nor because changing the rules is not a legitimate way to make a more fair and equitable setup under which to run a race, but ~because~ it won't make NHRA a red cent, and might cost something to implement (for software/programs.).

The "professionals" who are in a position to bring to fruition an improvement such as this, have NO INTEREST in fairness, ethics, or any other high-minded changes to idiotic rule situations such as this, UNLESS they can figure out a way to make some more cash out of it (and obviously, they can't.)

If the powers that be (now,) had been running things back when the Christmas tree was first implemented, when the rule was "the first car to break out loses," it would still be that way... believe it!

There was no software extant (look it up, ED) at that time to facilitate a worse red light rule, so they did what they could at the time (which was NOTHING) and it, over time, became the "industry standard" and people (like me, for instance) just accepted the fact that it couldn't be fixed at that time, and got used to it. For 47 years.

Now, people who have grown up with it, say, "If it aint broke, don't FIX it."

Well, it IS broke; they just can't see it.... and NHRA could NOT care less.


Now that it CAN be fixed, I think it's the most exquisite irony that it'll never happen.
So, yeah, it's here to stay....

Just my opinion, but that's what this board is for...

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by cicero819

Do fast car have an advantage? Probably, you have your competitor in sight at all times: the slower car has the disavantage of leaving first, if he red lights he's done regardless if the faster car red lights worse than him. I think that's an unfair disaventage for a slower car. What should be done is to change the right light rule to mirror the first or worse rule this sport was built on. Let's make the worse light offender, the loser. The faster car wouldn't see the red light until he's made his start and then if a red light had come on in the other lane the worst would be shown. Let's make it fair on everybody, brackets to class. I know that this has been debated until everyone is tired of hearing this being recycle every month, but the ever high cost of racing is being push up because everybody wants the faster car causing so people to be pushed out of racing. This is just my opinion and I know what they say about opinions. Claude Ruel

Claude, I (just like Bill D.) agree with you on all of the above, but Ed W. is probably right in that nothing will change (especially if it doesn't pad the pockets of the Glendora group). My way of dealing with the (now) even higher cost of NHRA racing is to embrace the IHRA's growing presence out west. When I get some more seat time under my belt, then I will embrace the NHRA again, because Jody & Toby (amongst numerous others), have shown that the slower car can & does win against the faster cars, and if I did my job on the starting line just .003 better 3wknds ago, I'd have been in my first Stock Eliminator semi-final rnd. of competition. That's fixable, the worst redlight issue probably won't be (whether it should be or not). By the way, The Hawk & Billy Nees, and Mark Y. (Even Ed F. at last years Indy nats), got there selves known to the racing masses driving slower rollers too, so it can be done...even without that change, and just like they've made it happen, I'm going to as well, so you faster class racers best be on your "A" game when you race me, because I'll have my day too...heck check out McNeal Freeman! My Georgia bud is in the Top Ten in the nations point standings, and he finished 2010 8th in D2. Driving a V/SA car! KEEP IT GOING MAC!!!

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

Claude, I (just like Bill D.) agree with you on all of the above, but Ed W. is probably right in that nothing will change (especially if it doesn't pad the pockets of the Glendora group). My way of dealing with the (now) even higher cost of NHRA racing is to embrace the IHRA's growing presence out west. When I get some more seat time under my belt, then I will embrace the NHRA again, because Jody & Toby (amongst numerous others), have shown that the slower car can & does win against the faster cars, and if I did my job on the starting line just .003 better 3wknds ago, I'd have been in my first Stock Eliminator semi-final rnd. of competition. That's fixable, the worst redlight issue probably won't be (whether it should be or not). By the way, The Hawk & Billy Nees, and Mark Y. (Even Ed F. at last years Indy nats), got there selves known to the racing masses driving slower rollers too, so it can be done...even without that change, and just like they've made it happen, I'm going to as well, so you faster class racers best be on your "A" game when you race me, because I'll have my day too...heck check out McNeal Freeman! My Georgia bud is in the Top Ten in the nations point standings, and he finished 2010 8th in D2. Driving a V/SA car! KEEP IT GOING MAC!!!

You are right Gary, Mac is a great guy! We taught him how to eat pizza at Leonardo's in Gainesville this year! Jim

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl

You are right Gary, Mac is a great guy! We taught him how to eat pizza at Leonardo's in Gainesville this year! Jim

L.M.A.O.!!! That was great Jim....

[jimi]

Originally Posted by cicero819

Do fast car have an advantage? Probably, you have your competitor in sight at all times: the slower car has the disavantage of leaving first, if he red lights he's done regardless if the faster car red lights worse than him. I think that's an unfair disaventage for a slower car. What should be done is to change the right light rule to mirror the first or worse rule this sport was built on. Let's make the worse light offender, the loser. The faster car wouldn't see the red light until he's made his start and then if a red light had come on in the other lane the worst would be shown. Let's make it fair on everybody, brackets to class. I know that this has been debated until everyone is tired of hearing this being recycle every month, but the ever high cost of racing is being push up because everybody wants the faster car causing so people to be pushed out of racing. This is just my opinion and I know what they say about opinions. Claude Ruel

the problem is your canadian!!!! just kidding............. i own faster class cars for just this reason if you dont like the rule build a faster car. for the most part the nhra s/ss sportsman rules have been just fine for a long time stop trying to change them.

[Bill Bogues]

I don't know about y'all, but when I am doing my job and concentrating on my lights, I do not see the other side at all. Maybe I am not paying enough attention to the other guy?????
Sharon