A/FX or what for 2011?

[Mike Carr]

I see nine (9) cars, that can run in the classes affected by the new cars, for sale on the first two pages of classifieds here on Classracer. Whether or not the CJ/DP dillema is the reason, well, only they can answer that.

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by NewHemi

How many guys are actually affected by the new cars?

Truth is, not all that many.

But there is an overwhelming send of fairness expressed here, in spite of the fact that it actually only affects a few, but emotionally expressed by those, who are all for fairness, unless of course, it is they who hold the competitive edge.

And if they all quit, isn't it really because the new cars have taken away a lot of their personal playgrounds when they, some of the guys complaining here about the new cars, who themselves have been beating up on the all the carbureted cars with fuel injected cars, and don't want to give that up.

Haven't most just have picked a place where they can win or dominate, and have no regard for the other guys in those classes, who may also have been racing for ages, but still haven't found their magic combo. This is drag racing.

All this nonsense about the new cars driving out the old iron is just that, it is nonsense! If guys are tired of racing, then by all means, retire. It may be time for some of you to do just that. But if guys care so little about racing, that they will only show up if they have their own personal edge, then the truth is that they probably aren't any more good for the sport, than you claim for the new cars to be.

How many new cars, especially the badly bashed Challengers, will there be in Las Vegas, Three, four, or maybe just two? And guys are going to whine that they will give up racing, or simply not go to that particular race, because of the Challengers, when only a couple of classes may be affected? Or, isn't it really concerns due to the economy, and uncertain personal finances that is keepinga lot of them away? We didn't go to a couple of races for that same reason; money...

Having said all of that, I understand that you don't want to get beat. Neither do I. You want a competitive edge, and we have one. When I bought the car, I didn't even know what class we would run in, because the horsepower wasn't set yet. So don't blame the car owners, because having bought one, and spent a ton of money and a lot of time to become competitive, DP owners have as much right to run these car as anyone else has to run any others ones.

Also I didn't twist the NHRA's arm, and neither did anyone else? They did what they thought was good for the sport. You don't agree with them, and that is fine, but why continue to attack the car owners?

Bashing the cars, the owners, factory programs, and the NHRA with insults and unfounded claims of all kinds hardly seems like a productive approach. But if it makes you feel big, or somehow serves your self-serving sense of fairness, then go ahead.

Will it actually make a change? Probably no more than rational discussions, and factual presentations would have made, but that ship has sailed. But frankly, I think it is counter productive. Do you really think that calling the NHRA names, and assaulting their intention, while attacking their character is the right thing to do? Where is your sense of fairness there? Because those attacks simply aren't fair! And then you expect them to roll over in your direction. Good luck with getting everything you want.

I would welcome separate classes, but the truth is that if we do get them, then we will have to listen to all the whining about us having our own classes, and how it isn't fair for the guys running 40 year old iron, who may want their own class too. Oh well. Apparently there is nowhere we can win except on the track.

See you on the track.

David
The New Hemi Guy

David with all due respect, you don't have a clue. This affects all of us, especially if you race a car that runs from AA through H. For someone who has been racing for less than a year you seem to know a lot. The fact is that these cars don't resemble any previous stock eliminator cars. They are current body styles with motors made up of parts from Ford and Chrysler's high performance parts books and have no relation to what's being sold to the public. NHRA and these two manufacturers have deliberately done this to take advantage of racers who have spent a lot of time and money on their race cars. One of NHRA's missions according to their 2008 Tax return on page 2 is and I quote; "The association establishes rules that govern competition including rules and standards that are designed to enhance safety in the sport as well as promote fair competition."

I would say that allowing these cars into traditional stock classes has had the opposite effect. It has been anti competitive and favors one group of racers over another.

[lstanford]

Originally Posted by Bob Pagano

Dick something better happen or a lot of higher class stockers will sit or sell as some have already. Cars are for sale all over the place and not many are selling, I wonder why. Nhra mite gain 25 or so new cars but add together AA, A, B, C, D and E and the total loss in nhra's pocket could be large to say the least. The ball is in there court. The option may be run IHRA next year for some.

Kind of sounds like little children. I'm going to take my bat and ball and go home and oh by the way " I'm going to pout ". Pleasssssssse give me a break!

[Richard Grant]

David, your first mistake is that only the higher classes are affected. All cars AA through H are affected. Second yes it is difficult to determine how many racers are staying home or selling their cars but just by the overwheming number of racers that have expressed their views on this site it is apparent that we have a problem. Why can't you understand that all we ask is for them to be placed in their own class just as the FI cars were. Very few people have blamed the new car owners. Yes most of us would take advantage of the situation if we could afford to. However I find it offensive that you and the other new cars owners won't support our position. It makes it appear that you are only interested in your own welfare and that you desire an unfair advantage at our expense.

[John Leichtamer Jr]

Greg you said it best about who it affects.
New Hemi Guy & FECARMAM must not live on this planet
to think the way they do!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hammer

[lstanford]

Originally Posted by John Leichtamer Jr

Greg you said it best about who it affects.
New Hemi Guy & FECARMAM must not live on this planet
to think the way they do!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hammer

Your right. Maybe I'm not on your planet. Some planets are so far out that there almost back in.

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by NewHemi

How many guys are actually affected by the new cars?

Truth is, not all that many.

But there is an overwhelming send of fairness expressed here, in spite of the fact that it actually only affects a few, but emotionally expressed by those, who are all for fairness, unless of course, it is they who hold the competitive edge.

And if they all quit, isn't it really because the new cars have taken away a lot of their personal playgrounds when they, some of the guys complaining here about the new cars, who themselves have been beating up on the all the carbureted cars with fuel injected cars, and don't want to give that up.

Haven't most just have picked a place where they can win or dominate, and have no regard for the other guys in those classes, who may also have been racing for ages, but still haven't found their magic combo. This is drag racing.

All this nonsense about the new cars driving out the old iron is just that, it is nonsense! If guys are tired of racing, then by all means, retire. It may be time for some of you to do just that. But if guys care so little about racing, that they will only show up if they have their own personal edge, then the truth is that they probably aren't any more good for the sport, than you claim for the new cars to be.

How many new cars, especially the badly bashed Challengers, will there be in Las Vegas, Three, four, or maybe just two? And guys are going to whine that they will give up racing, or simply not go to that particular race, because of the Challengers, when only a couple of classes may be affected? Or, isn't it really concerns due to the economy, and uncertain personal finances that is keepinga lot of them away? We didn't go to a couple of races for that same reason; money...

Having said all of that, I understand that you don't want to get beat. Neither do I. You want a competitive edge, and we have one. When I bought the car, I didn't even know what class we would run in, because the horsepower wasn't set yet. So don't blame the car owners, because having bought one, and spent a ton of money and a lot of time to become competitive, DP owners have as much right to run these car as anyone else has to run any others ones.

Also I didn't twist the NHRA's arm, and neither did anyone else? They did what they thought was good for the sport. You don't agree with them, and that is fine, but why continue to attack the car owners?

Bashing the cars, the owners, factory programs, and the NHRA with insults and unfounded claims of all kinds hardly seems like a productive approach. But if it makes you feel big, or somehow serves your self-serving sense of fairness, then go ahead.

Will it actually make a change? Probably no more than rational discussions, and factual presentations would have made, but that ship has sailed. But frankly, I think it is counter productive. Do you really think that calling the NHRA names, and assaulting their intention, while attacking their character is the right thing to do? Where is your sense of fairness there? Because those attacks simply aren't fair! And then you expect them to roll over in your direction. Good luck with getting everything you want.

I would welcome separate classes, but the truth is that if we do get them, then we will have to listen to all the whining about us having our own classes, and how it isn't fair for the guys running 40 year old iron, who may want their own class too. Oh well. Apparently there is nowhere we can win except on the track.

See you on the track.

David
The New Hemi Guy

It is interesting you made this statement as post #5 of this thread. I read post #'s 1-4 below you and am perplexed to read anything in these prior posts that even hints as being "bashing", "insulting", or any "unfounded claims". It leads me to believe you have now formulated a standard answer that you cut / paste from your "Defend Challenger File".

And Greg Hilll said it best with his reminder of NHRA's mission:
"The association establishes rules that govern competition including rules and standards that are designed to enhance safety in the sport as well as promote fair competition."

"Fair competition" in the eyes of your detractors would be classifying vehicles that race in the sport equally amongst those they compete with. For nearly 50 years, the Stock Eliminator class has been entirely inclusive of factory assembly line produced vehicles (some vehicles have received the benefit of off-sight development & / or reconstruction, i.e., the 1969-1970 Boss 429 as one example) yet all shared one commonality; they were street legal vehicles produced and distributed for public usage on public roadways. The DP Challenger defines the exact opposite intent of Stock Eliminator for the prior 50 years.

Stock Eliminator has always been for those seeking a challenge. I would define the typical owner / racer as one who can take equipment deemed a hindrance by most performance enthusiasts and turn it into a performance standout. Recognition is brought about by several methods which include winning races, winning class, claiming #1 qualifier positions and setting national records. All the while against others who followed the same set of rules and had the same expectations for rule engagement and enforcement.
These "old guys that need to go out to the pasture" attitude is disrespectful for not only those racers you quibble about, but the institution they have been a part of for 50 years. Given the funds (and desire), many of these guys could take the same Challenger and set the bar so much higher your head would spin.

And I have to wonder out loud. What is it that kept your team (prior to Keith Lynch) out of Stock Eliminator in years prior to the DP Challenger concept?

[Crew Chief]

So would the only cars that go into A/FX be the CJ and DP cars? Would the criteria for A/FX include any other cars? And with all the griping about the CJ and DP cars plus the many threats to quit racing that have been made, is it possible that there maybe some new rules on the horizon that could wind up affecting everyone in Stock?

Remember the old saying..."Be careful what you ask for, it just might come true."

[X-TECH MAN]

I believe that after reading a lot of posts over the last few months that a lot of you just dont have a clue about stock and super stock rules or racing in general. You are either life time spectators or bracket racers that just post to stir up s##t. What is it that you dont understand about putting these cars into a seperate class until the HP factors catch up to real world reality. It dosent matter what the class is called or what is plastered across the windshield. The current stock rules wont change for the old cars or the new cars. Most likely the new class' will have a lower index to run off of because of the lopsided performance advantage they now have. The stock rules are screwed up enough as it is so what could change? Just what the class designation is called running at the same wt. break as they run now in 2010 for 2011 dosent matter. If the AHFS or any new way of factoring these cars ends up factoring these new cars and more weight is needed than the car can be allowed to carry over the factory shipping weight (remember THAT rule?) to stay and run in stock elim. at 7.5 lbs per HP then they get a free ride to Super Stock at one of the 6.0 thru 7.0 class wt. breaks. NHRA wont tell you what thier plan is until they are ready so its all just BS until it happens. .

[Bernie Cunningham]

Wouldn't the F/X class designation be Super Stock only and not Stock?????????