Drag Pak/Cobra Jet FX classes

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Jim, some did go staight into SS, and they qualified 1& 2 in SS at Indy.
Do away with heads ups and I'll be out of here for sure.
Just fix the stupid low hp ratings.

Ed,

They should have all gone into SS just like the '68 Hemi darts and Cudas and the '65 A990 cars.....simply because they were never street cars, although I knew some guys that drove and street raced a '65 A990 in New Jersey.

JimR

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by GUMP

I'm talking about stock. As far as the Camaro goes, if there is an A/FX class there is no reason to not allow GM a "paper" car or two! After all, how many 5.9 DP's were built?

I'm talking about Stock as well. At 7.5 they're coasting to low 9 second passes. Take a half pound off of them and they lose over 200 pounds, making the 8's easily in reach on the same punch and coast set up they run low 9's with now. Those fast Super Stock CJ's have nearly stock engines.

The CJ's have an Eaton blower, that Eaton says they designed to produce adequate boost efficiently on a 7 liter engine, on a 4.6 liter engine. They have not even scratched the surface of the potential. The DP cars have a 1000cfm throttle body on a single plane intake that most Super Stock cars would love to have. There's more potential for flow there on a 5.9 or 6.1 liter engine than there is on any single carburetor engine in Stock, and for that matter, more than any 3x2 engine. Only the two 4 barrel engines can match them in flow capacity, and that's only the capacity of the carburetors and the throttle bodies, it leaves the intake out entirely.

All this silly talk of people being surprised about how fast these new cars can go is nonsense. Anyone who has built high performance engines for any real length of time saw the potential for 8 second performance in Stock immediately.

I told you before, and I'll say it again, the race package for the Camaro ain't coming. GM killed that program well over two years ago, I talked to the guy who started it and was in charge of it. The program is as dead as a door nail and all the people have been either moved to other programs or no longer even work there. What program was there never progressed past the information gathering stage. They started requesting input from racers on what they wanted to see, and the program ended less than a year later.

[Dgal]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Ed,

They should have all gone into SS just like the '68 Hemi darts and Cudas and the '65 A990 cars.....simply because they were never street cars, although I knew some guys that drove and street raced a '65 A990 in New Jersey.

JimR

Jim,

I agree to a point. Super Stock in the traditional classes (SS/AA, SS/BA.....SS/PA) were for modified Stockers. Read that as ported heads (same runner volume and I know a lot of stockers acid cover), any cam, and back halved. To put the Cobra Jets and Drag Paks in the traditional classes would be as wrong as they are in the Stock classisifcation currently.

Although you did say like the SS/AH. I am thinking that is what you meant and a class unto their own within Super Stock would be a natural extension of the FX classes in Stock.

My personal opinion and I have experessed this directly to Danny Gracia on two occasions is that I want them to stay in Stock, but put them in the FX classes. I love the cars and I think the drivers are top notch. They bring a tremendous amount of sizzle to the Stock Eliminator that we desperately need.

The last thing the NHRA needs to do is to take them out of Stock and kill the momentum that they have built with these cars. I do realize there is some negative momentum with people leaving or holding back on Stock car purchases. That negative momentum can be quickly and decisively turned by putting them in the FX classes and it won't kill anything that Ford or Dodge has accomplished up to this point.

Bring the Sportmanship back to Sportsman racing.

[BlueOval Ralph]

Allan as I read the NHRA poated specs the 2010 Super Stock 500hp has a Wipple in the specs.

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I'm talking about Stock as well. At 7.5 they're coasting to low 9 second passes. Take a half pound off of them and they lose over 200 pounds, making the 8's easily in reach on the same punch and coast set up they run low 9's with now. Those fast Super Stock CJ's have nearly stock engines.

The CJ's have an Eaton blower, that Eaton says they designed to produce adequate boost efficiently on a 7 liter engine, on a 4.6 liter engine. They have not even scratched the surface of the potential. The DP cars have a 1000cfm throttle body on a single plane intake that most Super Stock cars would love to have. There's more potential for flow there on a 5.9 or 6.1 liter engine than there is on any single carburetor engine in Stock, and for that matter, more than any 3x2 engine. Only the two 4 barrel engines can match them in flow capacity, and that's only the capacity of the carburetors and the throttle bodies, it leaves the intake out entirely.

All this silly talk of people being surprised about how fast these new cars can go is nonsense. Anyone who has built high performance engines for any real length of time saw the potential for 8 second performance in Stock immediately.

I told you before, and I'll say it again, the race package for the Camaro ain't coming. GM killed that program well over two years ago, I talked to the guy who started it and was in charge of it. The program is as dead as a door nail and all the people have been either moved to other programs or no longer even work there. What program was there never progressed past the information gathering stage. They started requesting input from racers on what they wanted to see, and the program ended less than a year later.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by BlueOval Ralph

Allan as I read the NHRA poated specs the 2010 Super Stock 500hp has a Wipple in the specs.

The Whipple is probably as efficient, if not more, than the Eaton, I have not looked, so I cannot say for sure. The first batch of the new cars came with an Eaton supercharger, those are the cars I was talking about. With 2 years worth of cars from Ford, as well as multiple engine combinations including supercharged modular engines and older V-8 crate engines, it's next to impossible to address each combination in every post. That applies equally to the Chrysler offerings. If you were to address every possible combination in every post, the posts would all be similar in length to "War and Peace". That's a problem in and of itself, as the multitude of combinations means that even if one or two combinations eventually is factored correctly, there are a dozen more out there that are not. And there are already plans either in place or in development for another year or two worth of new cars and combinations.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

The Whipple is probably as efficient, if not more, than the Eaton, I have not looked, so I cannot say for sure. The first batch of the new cars came with an Eaton supercharger, those are the cars I was talking about. With 2 years worth of cars from Ford, as well as multiple engine combinations including supercharged modular engines and older V-8 crate engines, it's next to impossible to address each combination in every post. That applies equally to the Chrysler offerings. If you were to address every possible combination in every post, the posts would all be similar in length to "War and Peace". That's a problem in and of itself, as the multitude of combinations means that even if one or two combinations eventually is factored correctly, there are a dozen more out there that are not. And there are already plans either in place or in development for another year or two worth of new cars and combinations.

as long as they keep "building" new cars and getting new bogus HP ratings they will NEVER even out

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Ed,

They should have all gone into SS just like the '68 Hemi darts and Cudas and the '65 A990 cars.....simply because they were never street cars, although I knew some guys that drove and street raced a '65 A990 in New Jersey.

JimR

And, their hp rating are just as bogus for SS. Like the 275 hp DP engine? Same factory hp as the LT1, which is now 340 or so hp in Stock? Bigger vales, bigger much higher flowing ports, killer manifold, 1000 cfm tb, ten more cubic inches, etc, etc.

As WJ would say, Ray Charles in his present condition could see where that was going.

I sure don't fault the guys running them, they are not to blame. If you are building a new car, right now they are a wise choice. The lack of respect from other racers may be anoying. With no r&d time (and a few cases a lack of knowlege) some guys are fast that don't really derserve to be. Most racers know who they are.

Btw, who (and how) knows for sure Pendarvas was 300 lbs heavy on that 9 sec C/SA pass?

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by GUMP

I'm not so sure that you are right. These guys aren't doing such a great job of protecting these cars. Almost every time that two show up they get weight. They are moving up way faster than the LS1's.

They are getting hit,but,there's a bigger difference in the amount of HP difference with these new cars.It will take many more hits to reel them in.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

And, their hp rating are just as bogus for SS. Like the 275 hp DP engine? Same factory hp as the LT1, which is now 340 or so hp in Stock? Bigger vales, bigger much higher flowing ports, killer manifold, 1000 cfm tb, ten more cubic inches, etc, etc.

As WJ would say, Ray Charles in his present condition could see where that was going.

I sure don't fault the guys running them, they are not to blame. If you are building a new car, right now they are a wise choice. The lack of respect from other racers may be anoying. With no r&d time (and a few cases a lack of knowlege) some guys are fast that don't really derserve to be. Most racers know who they are.

Btw, who (and how) knows for sure Pendarvas was 300 lbs heavy on that 9 sec C/SA pass?

It was 345 lbs and Im not at liberty to say as everyone on this forum knows him and he was there. I believe him.

[Ed Fernandez]

I said it before and i'll repeat it.
Ford and Mopar wanted these cars in STOCK,as they would be in the upper classes and stand out.In SS they would be in the middle classes and wouldn't stand out as much
because they weren't the fastest cars in the eliminator.It seems now,that they're showing their stuff,that he SS/AM guys like Scott Gove and Paul Ricci better start looking over their shoulders.