Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products

[Tom Dolan]

Same as you, I don't have car. I'm just a keyboard jockey with an opinion, whats your excuse.

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by Tom Dolan

Same as you, I don't have car. I'm just a keyboard jockey with an opinion, whats your excuse.

Oh, but I do have a car and may back out this year after bad luck last year. You on the other hand..not so much.

[Jim D'Amore]

Originally Posted by Tom Dolan

The only reason it was not in stock when it came out, there was no weight break for it to fit into. There was no FS/AA class. I don't know, but i don't think the 5.4 combo is better than a 5.2 just because the sc is bigger. I also don’t think most will agree when you say most will agree...duh. Its in the guide so I don’t know what your point is. This thread is about ford giving then taking it back for un know reasons. I wish someone from ford would come on here and tells us why, is that to much to ask.


5.2 Combo
bore 3.631 stroke 3.649
Piston- dome 12.5 CR
Cam- .590 lift
Throttle body- bigger than the 5.4
Valves- 2 -1.513 2 -1.285
RPM 9000 rpm+
supercharger 2.9 pulley size 3.25 inch
ram air front entrance supercharger

5.4 Combo
bore 3.553 stroke 4.166
piston- flat 10.5 cr
cam- lift .473
Throttle body smaller than the 5.2
valves- 2 -1.462 2 -1.265
rpm 8200+
supercharger 4.0 pulley size 4 inch
no ram air rear entrance super charger

Tom,


Keyboard racer or not it looks like you do your homework on the specs. Not to many people do that, thank you!


Jim D'Amore

[Jim D'Amore]

http://nhraracer.com/content/general...342&zoneid=132


The link above takes you to NHRARacer website where it shows the 5.4L 4.0L combination was on the books for 2010 and 2012 engine combos approved for the showdown class. It was then removed by Mike D. after a few weeks.


kdanner,


it's plain and simple any time the HP in stock eliminator got above 500 HP both of those combinations became legal. The 2013 Cobra Jet came from the factory with 500 HP. By the end of the year it was already above 525 HP. So both of those engine combinations were legal in 2013.




Jim D'Amore

[Larry Hill]

It's NHRA's ball, bat , glove, and field!

Play Ball

[Jim D'Amore]

I will be making several posts through out the day, then it will be up to Ken and the members of Class Racer to decide if they would like to have this thread locked up. It's going to start now...


Poking the bear came from Mike's mouth when I started pushing back.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore

LOL I believe Mike from Ford Performance is working for Roger Allen!

It's not right what he is doing to the '08,'10, and '12 Cobra Jet racers. Mike told all the older Cobra Jet owners that he was going to fight to be able to put the 2.9L Supercharger on to be competitive. When NHRA approved it, Mike turned around and said Ford is not interested! Even after he made all these promises through email.

that post was made 11-07-2017


A few short weeks after that Mike pulled Ford's 10 year sponsorship from Classracer.com. When I questioned Mike during our 3 hr meeting in Norwalk, OH a couple of weeks ago his exact words to me were he did not like the way he was being treated because of my post above. It showed he took it personal rather than thinking of what is good for Ford Motor Company and the members of Classracer.com. He was trying to hurt the site financially because of his personal feelings. Yet he continues to post about his stock/superstock association GLSSA. He receives financial gains from the GLSSA.


First off my apologies were given to Ken M. for losing his Ford sponsorship because of my post. I've known Ken since 1999 when he started writing for the biggest Ford Magazine on the planet (Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords.) He worked with MMFF for 15 years and in that time I've always known Ken to be one of Ford's biggest cheerleaders! Besides buying a new Ford vehicle every other year and racing an older Shelby Stocker for many years, he decided a few years back he was going to do what he needed to get in a new Cobra Jet. He worked out a deal with a fellow racer to purchase one of his 08' Cobra Jets and make payments on it so he could start racing stock while show casing Ford's best, the Cobra Jet. That is Ken's passion for Ford and because Mike got his personal feelings hurt he trampled on the dreams of a loyal, life long, Ford enthusiast. My guess is if Ken was racing a Mopar, classracer would still have a Ford Sponsorship.


These are nothing but the facts,


Jim D'Amore

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore

I will be making several posts through out the day, then it will be up to Ken and the members of Class Racer to decide if they would like to have this thread locked up. It's going to start now...


Poking the bear came from Mike's mouth when I started pushing back.




that post was made 11-07-2017


A few short weeks after that Mike pulled Ford's 10 year sponsorship from Classracer.com. When I questioned Mike during our 3 hr meeting in Norwalk, OH a couple of weeks ago his exact words to me were he did not like the way he was being treated because of my post above. It showed he took it personal rather than thinking of what is good for Ford Motor Company and the members of Classracer.com. He was trying to hurt the site financially because of his personal feelings. Yet he continues to post about his stock/superstock association GLSSA. He receives financial gains from the GLSSA.


First off my apologies were given to Ken M. for losing his Ford sponsorship because of my post. I've known Ken since 1999 when he started writing for the biggest Ford Magazine on the planet (Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords.) He worked with MMFF for 15 years and in that time I've always known Ken to be one of Ford's biggest cheerleaders! Besides buying a new Ford vehicle every other year and racing an older Shelby Stocker for many years, he decided a few years back he was going to do what he needed to get in a new Cobra Jet. He worked out a deal with a fellow racer to purchase one of his 08' Cobra Jets and make payments on it so he could start racing stock while show casing Ford's best, the Cobra Jet. That is Ken's passion for Ford and because Mike got his personal feelings hurt he trampled on the dreams of a loyal, life long, Ford enthusiast. My guess is if Ken was racing a Mopar, classracer would still have a Ford Sponsorship.


These are nothing but the facts,


Jim D'Amore

Nothing is ever gained by taking on Ford or nhra on this site. You have to move up the food chain if you want results. All you can do here is vent and gain the support of the occasional fan.

[Rat Raceway]

Even if the engine is less capable it has a supercharger that is one liter bigger than anyone else...

If you want to talk about folks that took it in the rear, take a look at the N/A Shootout guys (All brands). I know of 5 other people as well as myself that built an N/A combo had it ready to race and they killed the class for blower only cars. Not to mention all the players that had established setups.

I promise Bo had 100's of Thousands into his combo. He said in the Cobra jet video (On YouTube) he got a new engine each race, from his builder a few days before the race.

Unfortunately we are like kids dealing with our parents, when racing. Just because they said it was "OK" for a split second but then changed their mind, we are stuck with the final decision. As upset as we get it’s their rules and it’s not changing unless they want it to.

[Tom Dolan]

Blower size is a mute point. copo's have a smaller pulley on there 2.9 then anybody else and have a bigger cam lift. Mopars have a engine that does not even bolt into a stock challenger. The all have there own plus and minus. The combo is in the guide and looks to be equal to the others. This issue has nothing to do with nhra, they are okay with it, ford is not. Thats all it is about, why did ford tell nhra not to let it compete. What ever the answers is I think many would like to here it.

[Jim D'Amore]

Originally Posted by Rat Raceway

Even if the engine is less capable it has a supercharger that is one liter bigger than anyone else...

If you want to talk about folks that took it in the rear, take a look at the N/A Shootout guys (All brands). I know of 5 other people as well as myself that built an N/A combo had it ready to race and they killed the class for blower only cars. Not to mention all the players that had established setups.

I promise Bo had 100's of Thousands into his combo. He said in the Cobra jet video (On YouTube) he got a new engine each race, from his builder a few days before the race.

Unfortunately we are like kids dealing with our parents, when racing. Just because they said it was "OK" for a split second but then changed their mind, we are stuck with the final decision. As upset as we get it’s their rules and it’s not changing unless they want it to.

Question, was it the manufacturers that turned away the N/A shoot out cars or was it NHRA?


Because NHRA has been fantastic in working with the racers on the Supercharged cars. In fact they have gone above and beyond on many occasions to make it so all Supercharged cars and their drag racing customers will fit in this class.


GM has just done a better job than Ford. Mopar, hell they are just toying with us they are so good.


As far as the displacement difference in Superchargers, if the 2.9L and 4.0L were similar in design it would be an advantage. But the 4.0L has a rear entry, making 2 90* turns before the air hits the rotor packs. The design of the rotor packs are not the Gen 3 technology like the 2.9L. There is a 35+ HP difference between the old design and the Gen 3 rotors. There is a 40 HP difference in the rear entry vs. front entry case design. Because the 4.0L rotor packs are so much larger and heavier it takes an additional 22 HP to turn over the new Gen 3 2.9L rotors. The biggest factor is you are talking a 4.00" diameter pulley vs. a 3.00" pulley so the 4.0L blower turns at 8,000 RPM slower than the new 2.9L Gen 3. Advantage goes to the 2.9L Gen 3. Size does matter in some things, but efficiency matters most in this case.