We need a new "instant" trigger! - Page 13

Billy Nees · 03-30-2009, 09:40 AM

Stocker2, you're the first person in over 110 responses and 7000 views to respond to the only question that I originally asked! Now we just need an answer.

Bruce Noland · 03-30-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

OK everybody, The -1.40 trigger is taking too long to catch up to all of the "soft" combos out there! Any suggestions? OBTW we're talking Stock and SS!

Billy,
You have a great thread going and gotten a lot of good feedback. Isn't hitting the go-fast guys at -1.30 an attempt to answer your question?

What is the answer that you want to hear?

Jack McCarthy · 03-30-2009, 10:03 AM

billy, for your information, and you should know better

my car has never been defactored since the 70's when jr stock / superstock were divided NHRA deemed that since when compared to the 1964-1966 283 -220 i have smaller intake, smaller carburetor, more CC's and more deck heigth that the 1957-1961 283 230 hp should be rated 215 ... note that WHOPPING 5 hp for the carb (12hp and the intake now cheating 459 = 17hp >total = 29hp) geez thanks nhra.

i have never asked for or recieved a reduction in horsepower
i have never asked for the 1st or worst redlite rule (and i should)

i just race... and know eventually i'll be rid of the caddy

jack

oh i do manipulate the AFHS... guilty as charged

Billy Nees · 03-30-2009, 10:07 AM

Bruce, thank you! Yes I wouldn't mind going to -1.30 if that is what everybody wants. What I am finding here is that the majority of responders don't want to discuss ANY kind of change. They would rather change the subject or argue about the weather. I think that -1.30 would be fine but I would rather just see the percentage of hit moved from 3.25% to something higher. What are your comments on that?

Billy Nees · 03-30-2009, 10:10 AM

Jack, I call that "Firing for Effect"! Since you're now awake, do you have anything beneficial to add towards answering my question?

david ring · 03-30-2009, 10:24 AM

Unlike my students, I ask a dumb question every know and then, so would someone please explain to me why the trigger at a points or open is different from the trigger at a national event?

Bruce Noland · 03-30-2009, 10:31 AM

Billy,
I'm not sure about a bigger hit. I think if a racer speeds past the -1.30 mark twice in one year (not each ahfs period of six months) then the second hit at 3.25 should get his attention. We still have to consider the track conditions and air.

Dave,
The Division races get a bit of a break because nhra wants people to show up at those races to set records. It's just another way to entice the racers to race at division races. And probably a fair way to do it.

Billy Nees · 03-30-2009, 10:45 AM

Bruce, I guess where I am going with this is, don't you think that it will take too long to get the new "underrated combos" brought into line with exsisting combos?

Mike Carr · 03-30-2009, 11:20 AM

There are so many things that need changed with the AHFS system, I wouldn't know where to start. But I'll answer Billy's question first, with two possible answers.

A) For the first -1.40 under run a car makes, give them the current 3.25% adjustment. That would give it a quick smack now. For each successive run a racer makes of -1.40, up the percentage. Maybe 4 or 5%, with no regard to the "factoring session, first half or second). However, if a racer was to go more than 1.40 once, there is a good chance he/she may not do it again...sandbag or whatever. So:

B) Or, the opposite could be applied. Make the first hit more severe (4 or 5%) to possibly get said combination in line quicker, than they could revert back to the 3.25% for each successive hit, or even leave the higher 4-5% hit in place for successive hits. This would probably be better for what Billy is suggesting. The only bad thing is, if a racer with a combination not considered to be soft could get hit if there is Class Eliminations at a race with mineshaft air. For example, an A/SA 69 Camaro 427/425-425. Many would not consider this a soft combination. But, if Bobby DeArmond or anyone was to go -1.40 in Class, it gets 14 HP and 112 pounds (at 3.25%), that probably isn't deserved? It would help bring in line the soft combos, but could also hurt undeserving ones.

Another thing I was thinking about over the weekend (I may be wrong on this). Once a car currently goes more than -1.40 under, it gets 3.25%. But that's where it ends, right? It doesn't go any higher? So if a racer was to run -1.43 under while still holding some, he/she could then later say "Well, since I'm getting hit anyway, I'll go out and go -1.65 under and won't get hit anymore than going -1.43". Shouldn't there be a scale? Example: Runs of -1.400 to -1.499 get 3.25%. Runs of -1.500 to -1.599 get x-percent, Runs of -1.600 to -1.699 get x-percent and so on? Similar to the CIC in Comp Eliminator. I do agree with others, that any comination running more than -1.40 under should have to pass a teardown, to make sure that it was legal.

Just some thoughts...

X-TECH MAN · 03-30-2009, 11:35 AM

Its RE-DICK-U-LESS to have ANY combination run 1.40 + under in the first place. Wack the indexes first as 99% run better than .5 under to begin with. If they do not then its time to work on your car a little. Then use a lower trigger and hit it hard with at least 5%. At 5% even at 425 HP an A/S car would gain approx 170 lbs. Whats that slow one down???? 1.5 to 1.7 tenths? Worst case...if the A car has to go to AA he can take out 170 lbs.If nothing changes most of us will be 90 + years old and/or dead before some of these combos are taken care of. WAKE UP.

03-30-2009, 09:40 AM	#121
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,486 Likes: 3,587 Liked 7,683 Times in 1,731 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Stocker2, you're the first person in over 110 responses and 7000 views to respond to the only question that I originally asked! Now we just need an answer. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

03-30-2009, 10:03 AM	#123
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,318 Likes: 28 Liked 459 Times in 113 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! billy, for your information, and you should know better my car has never been defactored since the 70's when jr stock / superstock were divided NHRA deemed that since when compared to the 1964-1966 283 -220 i have smaller intake, smaller carburetor, more CC's and more deck heigth that the 1957-1961 283 230 hp should be rated 215 ... note that WHOPPING 5 hp for the carb (12hp and the intake now cheating 459 = 17hp >total = 29hp) geez thanks nhra. i have never asked for or recieved a reduction in horsepower i have never asked for the 1st or worst redlite rule (and i should) i just race... and know eventually i'll be rid of the caddy jack oh i do manipulate the AFHS... guilty as charged __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

03-30-2009, 10:07 AM	#124
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,486 Likes: 3,587 Liked 7,683 Times in 1,731 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Bruce, thank you! Yes I wouldn't mind going to -1.30 if that is what everybody wants. What I am finding here is that the majority of responders don't want to discuss ANY kind of change. They would rather change the subject or argue about the weather. I think that -1.30 would be fine but I would rather just see the percentage of hit moved from 3.25% to something higher. What are your comments on that? __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

03-30-2009, 10:10 AM	#125
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,486 Likes: 3,587 Liked 7,683 Times in 1,731 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Jack, I call that "Firing for Effect"! Since you're now awake, do you have anything beneficial to add towards answering my question? __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

03-30-2009, 10:24 AM	#126
david ring Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Oneonta.,NY Posts: 889 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Unlike my students, I ask a dumb question every know and then, so would someone please explain to me why the trigger at a points or open is different from the trigger at a national event?

03-30-2009, 10:31 AM	#127
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Billy, I'm not sure about a bigger hit. I think if a racer speeds past the -1.30 mark twice in one year (not each ahfs period of six months) then the second hit at 3.25 should get his attention. We still have to consider the track conditions and air. Dave, The Division races get a bit of a break because nhra wants people to show up at those races to set records. It's just another way to entice the racers to race at division races. And probably a fair way to do it. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

03-30-2009, 10:45 AM	#128
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,486 Likes: 3,587 Liked 7,683 Times in 1,731 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Bruce, I guess where I am going with this is, don't you think that it will take too long to get the new "underrated combos" brought into line with exsisting combos? __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

03-30-2009, 11:20 AM	#129
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! There are so many things that need changed with the AHFS system, I wouldn't know where to start. But I'll answer Billy's question first, with two possible answers. A) For the first -1.40 under run a car makes, give them the current 3.25% adjustment. That would give it a quick smack now. For each successive run a racer makes of -1.40, up the percentage. Maybe 4 or 5%, with no regard to the "factoring session, first half or second). However, if a racer was to go more than 1.40 once, there is a good chance he/she may not do it again...sandbag or whatever. So: B) Or, the opposite could be applied. Make the first hit more severe (4 or 5%) to possibly get said combination in line quicker, than they could revert back to the 3.25% for each successive hit, or even leave the higher 4-5% hit in place for successive hits. This would probably be better for what Billy is suggesting. The only bad thing is, if a racer with a combination not considered to be soft could get hit if there is Class Eliminations at a race with mineshaft air. For example, an A/SA 69 Camaro 427/425-425. Many would not consider this a soft combination. But, if Bobby DeArmond or anyone was to go -1.40 in Class, it gets 14 HP and 112 pounds (at 3.25%), that probably isn't deserved? It would help bring in line the soft combos, but could also hurt undeserving ones. Another thing I was thinking about over the weekend (I may be wrong on this). Once a car currently goes more than -1.40 under, it gets 3.25%. But that's where it ends, right? It doesn't go any higher? So if a racer was to run -1.43 under while still holding some, he/she could then later say "Well, since I'm getting hit anyway, I'll go out and go -1.65 under and won't get hit anymore than going -1.43". Shouldn't there be a scale? Example: Runs of -1.400 to -1.499 get 3.25%. Runs of -1.500 to -1.599 get x-percent, Runs of -1.600 to -1.699 get x-percent and so on? Similar to the CIC in Comp Eliminator. I do agree with others, that any comination running more than -1.40 under should have to pass a teardown, to make sure that it was legal. Just some thoughts... __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

03-30-2009, 11:35 AM	#130
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: We need a new "instant" trigger! Its RE-DICK-U-LESS to have ANY combination run 1.40 + under in the first place. Wack the indexes first as 99% run better than .5 under to begin with. If they do not then its time to work on your car a little. Then use a lower trigger and hit it hard with at least 5%. At 5% even at 425 HP an A/S car would gain approx 170 lbs. Whats that slow one down???? 1.5 to 1.7 tenths? Worst case...if the A car has to go to AA he can take out 170 lbs.If nothing changes most of us will be 90 + years old and/or dead before some of these combos are taken care of. WAKE UP.