A/SA First in the 9.80's

[SS Engine Guy]

Just to be clear, I am in favor of any and all technology that goes into the new stuff just as I am in favor of new technology and equipment in my shop. You stay current or you get behind. My statement had more to do with making a combo a killer or a loser with the stroke of a pen. I don't like the idea of years and hundreds of thousands of dollars of mine and my customers money being tossed away because some bean counter thinks he can make a few brownie points. And that is what tech is becoming......bean counters.

On another note, I truely admire Chris and his Dad's desire to do most of the work on their cars. That is where hot rodding came from before the days of the mail order catalog. Also an imtimate knowledge of everything in your powerplant is extremely important and you only get that from doing it. Once you understand what works and what dosen't, only then can you make progress. The only way to get that understanding is by doing it.

[FINESPLINE]

You have to know that that the dp/cj packages are so highly developed from the factory that the ramp up time to going fast was short. Maybe its time to band together as a team ( a/s aa/s a/sa aa/sa ) and start an engine development program for bb chevy in stock. There is strength in numbers and cost effective unless we have dirty secrets to hide. I might believe thats what happened in the barton vs. Westcott war in ss/ah . -----just a thought !

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by FINESPLINE

You have to know that that the dp/cj packages are so highly developed from the factory that the ramp up time to going fast was short.

I needed a good laugh....a really good laugh.....

The DP is as far from that statment as you could be.....as far....they took an already ground cam they used in the 392, threw it in with some $300 chevy rods on a street crank and redid the 392 crate motor pistons for a 6.1 and 5.7......THAT is a Drag Pak, throw on a SEMA carbon hood and a set of viper buckets and youve got a Drag Pak.

There is no rear end.
There are no headers.
There is no transmission.

In as much as the motors....not even going there......

If thats "Highly Developed" I want a refund.

[Mack Reeves]

The DP is as far from that statment as you could be.....as far....they took an already ground cam they used in the 392, threw it in with some $300 chevy rods on a street crank and redid the 392 crate motor pistons for a 6.1 and 5.7......THAT is a Drag Pak, throw on a SEMA carbon hood and a set of viper buckets and youve got a Drag Pak.

There is no rear end.
There are no headers.
There is no transmission.

In as much as the motors....not even going there......

If thats "Highly Developed" I want a refund.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad that is figured out..... I was about to get upset that I had gotten something less than all the other DP owners... WHEW!!! Now I know we all are in the same boat!!!!!! I was afraid my car had missed the High Developement day at assembly....

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by SS Engine Guy

I truely admire Chris and his Dad's desire to do most of the work on their cars. That is where hot rodding came from before the days of the mail order catalog. Also an imtimate knowledge of everything in your powerplant is extremely important and you only get that from doing it. Once you understand what works and what dosen't, only then can you make progress. The only way to get that understanding is by doing it.

Thanks, I needed and appreciate that.....were finishing up the put together after some parts issues hinked us for 3 days....I found a solution today.....but beware the new Indy Timing Chains with the flat roller bearing for the 5.7 and 6.1 they dont fit right...the bearing pack is too thick....tried it both ways and its a damm good thing I had my old one...

[Timothy Christ]

Originally Posted by Pvt Parts

I've been watching this thread because it mirrors a lot of my experience in SS as I raced a SS/A Corvette. I've always said that if I were to get back in competition again it would be with an A Stock car. Why? Because winning a Stock Eliminator title would give me wins in 3 eliminators and that's a rather small club I'd like to be in. And being that A Stock is the fastest class in the eliminator, it offers a great advantage.

Now to reality. You guys with the older cars need to cowboy up. New technology is here to stay and it's a business decision with NHRA and the manufacturers and the sponsors. Even if you could compete on the same HP rating as the newer cars, you would lose because of the aerodymanics. You need to look to the future which brings me to the next point.

Why do you care about 30 pieces of silver when the real pot of gold is the eliminator win??? Isn't that the real reason you are here??? If not, take your beating like a man and grow up. If it is, just move to another class (B or C) and take out the newer cars one by one.

Real racers are capable of making a car run fast in any class. Dave Ficacci is a perfect example. Don't worry about A/S if you are concerned about running a heads up, move to B or C and take them out. The big Wally's are far more valuable than the mini's. Focus your efforts on winning the eliminator and ignore all of the crybaby nonsense about class. You'll be far better off in the end.

Well said. That's why I sold my H/SA 1969 Camaro in 2009. The future comes up on you real fast when your not paying attention.

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

I hope you guys don't think I'm defending the horsepower factoring system, because we all know it has it's flaws. They do USUALLY get ironed out over time, but yes they are present and probably will be for the foreseeable future.

Dave, I'm not saying your combination is bad - but it's easy to see on paper that the new Cobra Jets and Drag Paks are better. I would assume if you look at it from an outsider's view you would say the same am i right? The largest difference is yes, these two auto makers are stepping up and putting their efforts back into drag racing - which desperately needs it. I feel for you guys with the old muscle cars, I really do - they're a great piece of auto history. And I am sure that you guys work hard and spend plenty of money on your car, it's fast - it shows. Does it suck? Yes, and I do know the feeling. We've raced in other classes where we've had competition with these weak factored combinations. No matter how you slice it, it won't change quick enough to make you the fastest guy around again any time soon. This is the same stuff in Stock and Super Stock. We now have Rock Haas with his bad to the bone Cobra Jet that just went 8.97 in SS/DA! But you know, Brian Oakes continues to come right back and go faster yet with his old '69 technology.

The point is this, you're combination isn't bad, your car isn't slow, you don't sit around and wish it to be faster - these new cars are just plain built and manufactured with better technology and NHRA will probably be slow to put the power to where it should be at. Heck, you (and I) are still using old carburetors which aren't even used on leave blowers now days - and these new cars have throttle bodies the size of my waist letting all the air in!

Due point has to be made for the 2010 CJ's in that these motors are different from their 2008 counterparts and that is why they have the 425 rating again. I'm sure it is under-factored, but hopefully for you one of these guys will go out and go 1.25 under and help the cause in a quicker way.

There is one point that I don't think many people in the Stock or even Super Stock community realize on these factory race cars right now. It's not like these are a bunch of bone stock motors with a lot of room for improvement. The Ford motors are assembled in a special engine development area by only two guys. These motors have been refined before they were ever released and there really is hardly any room for improvement. And the fast Drag Pak cars including Irvin Johns and many others to come have horsepower from Jeff Taylor. Now you tell me - you have a guy with all of the latest Comp and Pro Stock technology applied to a stock eliminator motor how could these not be fast?

To respond to your statement if BS and CS were combined, yes that would definitely hurt our program and I would obviously be pissed. But as we've done before - we would have to start off in a new direction. If I were in your shoes I would just get out of A and AA and let those guys beat each other up and be the bad guy in B/SA? What's wrong with that? If there is an advantage to be had, why not take it? If these guys are entering AA and A, why show up in their class and give them an immediate advantage? Let them go out, race each other heads up and go to fast amongst themselves and then hop back in when its manageable?

And to this Alan Roehrich clown, who the heck are you? I've looked over qualifying sheets from the last several years and you are on 1 (Bristol '08)? You asked me for ideas on how to improve your engine program, I would start by actually racing and learning. Or, better yet - call Dave Walther. He has a '69 G/S that went -1.31 in Reynolds last year - looks like he my have figured out some of the stuff you're still scratching yourself trying to learn.

Michael, I guess it would be all right with you if Ford and Chrysler cars got to run on 9.5 wight break instead of a 10.5 in SS/CS and you had to run 300lbs. heavier. Just wondered.

[Irv Johns]

Due point has to be made for the 2010 CJ's in that these motors are different from their 2008 counterparts and that is why they have the 425 rating again. I'm sure it is under-factored, but hopefully for you one of these guys will go out and go 1.25 under and help the cause in a quicker way.




Greg, the new Cobra Jets are 435 HP ,not that that helps much.LOL

[Bob Pagano]

Greg, Alan has been around the horn with Kevin Craddick in A & AA and is no stroke.

[Greg Hill]

Bob I know Alan pretty well. He is a bright, thoughtful person who just keeps working on Kevin's stuff. He is capable and has the credentials to speak out on this matter.