2008 Cobra Jets belong in Stock

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

Jeff,

Respectfully, Ford wanted to run Stock because it wanted a car in the top class. NHRA has reserved the top class of Super Stock for Chrysler products only, so why should Ford build a car to be second fiddle? I disagree with the SS/AH-only class, because it is unfair to other manufacturers and racers who would like a shot at the lime-light. In addition, Ford wanted to build a turn-key racer, much like it does in road racing. We all know this would be out of the realm of a OEM to build a turn-key Super Stock car.

So. where does the CJ really belong? Perhaps Super Stock is a better place, that is certainly a good argument.

If Chevy or Chrysler builds a car that fits the current guidelines I am all for it no matter where it falls. I would be pissed if I raced a "A" or "AA" car, I'll admit that, but any racer gripes should with NHRA, not Ford or the guys racing them. If the cars fly like all of you are predicting, then I'm sure NHRA will take action. I can't speak for NHRA, but I'm sure it doesn't want egg on its face over this.



Evan

Evan, you bring up a good point. However why not use the 4.6 4v motor with the blower and arrive at an HONEST hp factor. Since there is no "street" version of this engine, and the closest relative to it is rated at 500hp, its really hard to believe that its a 425 hp motor. We also know that it will take YEARS for the AHFS to catch up with these cars. If you look at the LS1 cars, it took several years to get the HP factor right, and that was after it was common knowledge that the street motor was under rated by gm (more likely for insurnace reasons, than to sneak up on unsuspecting stockers). I think that these cars running in the 10.0's and teens at pomona with mph in the mid 1teens tells the story. NO ONE stands a chance against these cars heads up. There are several factors that contribute to this, 1) supercharged engine with no genrealy available specs on the blower/boost (sorry Tim, i was told by somoene at NHRA tech that the field doesn't have that info as you claimed), 2) the engine is still using some sort of factory style ECU, mass air and all (its genreally accepted that a well tuned Big Stuff or XFI is worth some hp). 3) fly by wire (tons of LS guys use max throttle position to bracket race their cars very successfully, who knows how much throttle percentage they are running?)

Whats the solution? I would start with a well preppped engine on the dyno and use the 1.5 times factored hp formula. If its close FINE, if its way off then NHRA should adjust the factor on these motors immediately.

BTW Evan, ford should have really made sure that Red and Shaun LeBlanc ended up with one of these cars. After all they have done more for the Cobra Jet banner in recent memory than anyone else

[Jack Matyas]

Chad -- I don't know of even one LS car in the country that uses "Fly by Wire".........do you ?

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Chad -- I don't know of even one LS car in the country that uses "Fly by Wire".........do you ?

every C5 and C6 vette is fly by wire. and i know plenty of guys who bracket race them. Some guys i know run an 11.50 index class with a car capable of mid 10's. adjust max throttle percentage in the computer and instant 11.49-11.51. My trailblazer SS is fly by wire, its pretty consistent as it is so i don't mess with the throttle percentage when i bracket race it. If I'm not mistaken the LS2 GTO's are fly by wire as well (not 100% sure on that one) i know the LS1 ones were cable operated

[Jack Matyas]

Chad -- Let me rephrase -- do you know of any LS stockers (or S/S) in the country using "Fly by Wire" ?

[Chad Rhodes]

i know there is one guy in D2 that runs a street vette in stock, his is fly by wire. the new CJ is fly by wire. I'm not making an argument for or against just saying that a fly by wire system can be manipulated to SLOW a car down and its pretty consistent when doing so.

I know there are two other C5's running (corda?) but i don't know if they are still fly by wire or cable operated

[Jack Matyas]

Chad -- What I'm saying is that you need to get your facts right -- stockers are not street cars .As far as the CJ's are concerned they will change to cables when they get aftermarket ECU's ................

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Chad -- What I'm saying is that you need to get your facts right -- stockers are not street cars .As far as the CJ's are concerned they will change to cables when they get aftermarket ECU's ................

I have my facts straight, i was trying to illustrate what the CJ guys could be doing with the factory ECU. also if I am not mistaken there is an intereface for a GM Throttle controle module and an aftermarekt ECU. and yes there is one guy who runs a street vette in stock, hell he went alot of rounds at the gators last year till he had a heads up run. i never said that a bunch of stockers ran fly by wire, i am trying to get the point across of how easy fly by wire is to manipulate, what part of that was hard to understand?

[Evan Smith]

Chad,

I don't know what the solution is. Fact is, the car is approved and that is all that matters. You could argue that it took the better part of 10 years to get the LS engines factored to a reasonable point. I know for fact that the rear-wheel hp numbers of a stock LS engine will be slightly higher than it should given the factory ratings. Everyone knows it takes time to get any new combo factored correctly. Should be now creat new precedent on how NHRA factors cars? I really don't know.

Red and Shaun are close friends of mine and have done quite a lot with their FEs, however, Ford's intent from a business standpoint was to sell all 50 cars and turn a profit. And how do you determine who gets free cars anyway? Ken Miele is a two-time national event winner with an FE, and there are many others who are deserving.

Evan

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

Chad,

I don't know what the solution is. Fact is, the car is approved and that is all that matters. You could argue that it took the better part of 10 years to get the LS engines factored to a reasonable point. I know for fact that the rear-wheel hp numbers of a stock LS engine will be slightly higher than it should given the factory ratings. Everyone knows it takes time to get any new combo factored correctly. Should be now creat new precedent on how NHRA factors cars? I really don't know.

Red and Shaun are close friends of mine and have done quite a lot with their FEs, however, Ford's intent from a business standpoint was to sell all 50 cars and turn a profit. And how do you determine who gets free cars anyway? Ken Miele is a two-time national event winner with an FE, and there are many others who are deserving.

Evan

well that last part was just my opinion, lol. Shaun is a very good friend of mine as well.

[X-TECH MAN]

Screw all of this ECU, fly by wire, computer crap. Real race cars have carbs (not the kind you eat) and doors (tail gates also).....lol.