We need a new "instant" trigger!

[Alan Roehrich]

Ron, I watched several rounds of class last year. And I saw cars I know were fast and could win "take a knee" to avoid getting hit. The cars most likely to do this are the rarer cars with the capability to go 1.4 under or more.

NHRA is never going to be bothered with incrementals. If they were, they'd have used the suggested format racers offered, instead of what they've done.

I really wish there was an easy solution. Because the ONLY solution NHRA will be bothered with, if they will be bothered with a solution at all, is an easy one.

The problem with a CiC race in Stock is all combinations in a class are not equal, which is why the AHFS is necessary to begin with.

[Ron Ortiz]

Alan, if they do not use incrimental times then it can never be controlled. Incriments show where a driver is lifting, whether it be at 1,000 foot mark or the 330 mark. NHRA already has the incrimental times on the ET slip, they just would have to start looking at them closely and start evaluating what is going on.

The best part of my solution is that people are going to be running it out the back door again, like it is supposed to be. If they lift, the incriments are going to show it. NHRA then just calculates what the run would have been and presto, you have solid data for the 'Big Re-Evaluation"

I am just tired of watching so much bagging in the eliminator. It sucks, and I know that it is not fun watching or doing

Ron Ortiz
U/SA not having fun

[Alan Roehrich]

Ron,
I think everyone who has actually studied the problem agrees that the only to make it work is to use incrementals.

I just do not think that anyone is going to fall for the "free pass" to run it out the back door for a year, when they know they're going to get hit for at the end of the year. "Punishment" is punishment, whether it comes the next Tuesday morning, or the next January 1st.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

OK everybody, The -1.40 trigger is taking too long to catch up to all of the "soft" combos out there! Any suggestions? OBTW we're talking Stock and SS!

Billy, 10 pages, 9 & 1/2 o/t, and what do you have?

Reason ?

Nobody cares about U/SA

Wait until the new CJ's and Mopars start running roughshod over everyone in the higher classes.
Bring this thread back then. Watch the response you get.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

I truly do not have an agenda, I like drag racing. I hate seeing cars dump at the top end in a so called performance class like Stock. I hate seeing the .90 class cars die on the line and then come roaring back to life. From a spectators point of view these types of racing is killing the sport.

My solution is simple and would be very effective.

1) Eliminate the trigger and let them run out the back door
2) Record ALL runs and their incrimental times.
3) Have class eliminations at every race.
4) Re-evaluate all data after one year.
5) Reset the AHFS from acquired data.

You will be kind of back at square one, but with all the combos more in line of their true HP rating. Also after running the cars all out for a year, no one will want to come back to the "old way."

If someone wants to sand bag, they will get caught up with it when an opponent pushes them. Then their cover will be blown by the incrimental times.

This is just my opinion as a spectator and true drag racer.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA

That works except for the single classes they would never have to run hard and never get hp.

[Lynn A McCarty]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

OK everybody, The -1.40 trigger is taking too long to catch up to all of the "soft" combos out there! Any suggestions? OBTW we're talking Stock and SS!

Billy,

The "trigger" method is invalid. To determine if a combo is bogus, you dont use the fastest run of an individual to compare to the average. The correct way would be to use the average run of a combination to the average standard in SS or S. Not that hard to do and much more accurate.

The second problem is that the corrective action is too small or not often enough. If a car runs 1.4 under firstly you must determine if it is due to outside forces, like AIR? When I say air I am talking about barometer, temperature, and humidity. (I ran on a 100% humidity day at Indy and that was unbelievable)

Fix it? Run a curve of an engine combo and compare those "like" engines to an average. Correct all runs like we do on our weather stations. Then we must increase the correction factor from 4HP to a much larger number.

Mark,

My family knew Marty Robbins very well. He was a great guy. My ex-sister in law was married to his steel guitar player who won best band of the year in the 1982(?) Grammys. I used to go back stage to the Grand Ole Oprey, but since I dont listen to country music I was like a Pontiac guy at a Chevy race! .

[Colin Wigle]

The least popular combo in a heavy populated class will get hit first, as there are no slugs to lower the average, trust me I know. That is if you are serious about trying to win and not just save your combo for the time in the bracket race that you may draw a heads up run. If the combination is popular there is always the slow cars to help keep it in check. Then again if the same popular combo are all fast well then I guess it needs to be adjusted also.
Look at the 454 425 it has been hit with 11 already this year and has since hit the trigger three or four times, that’s another 4 before Indy.
I think the best solution would be all runs count 1000 foot increments. And count the refactored tracks at their adjusted factor. Just my opinion

Colin

[magnumv8]

Before I start, I am in the middle of a stocker build because I want to get into the next level of drag racing (I have been racing for a long time and have been a drag racing "fan" since the early '60s....) I have read and reread the rulebook til you can see through the pages and tried to keep track of the changes as they occur....with the combo I am working on I am just looking at getting into the field so I can run eliminations, I could care less about running for a "record" or impressing anyone but myself....here are my thoughts on the AHFS.....First off it only affects class eliminations and heads up runs during class eliminations.....if you have pride in what you do and love the challenge of getting the utmost out of your combo then go for it and enjoy your own rewards.....I know racers who look for expired records to "get their names in the book" and you only need to be .5 under the index to get it....I feel that should be changed to 1.00 seconds under to set a record and 1.25 would trigger a review.....since 1 run by one individual will not cause a "hit" to the combo that won't occur unless multiple runs by more than one person with the same combo happens, yes it will trigger an instant review but nothing will happen if the average doesn't warrant it....if it is an odd combination and there isn' a bunch of them then it will be at NHRA's discretion to decide what to do....and here is what will really yank the guys who work hard to bomb their class( they already won class and have a trophy) NO MORE HEADS UP RUNS DURING ELIMINATIONS !!!!!....everyone works hard to qualify and get into the show...give all of them a shot at winning the event....I wouldn't enjoy going into a round knowing I pretty much had no chance (heads up)....I am a pretty likeable person and I race because I love the sport.....winning or losing doesn't ruin my day, but all I want is chance.....

[Ron Ortiz]

Alan, if they do not go for the "free pass" thats their fault. They are going to get hit regardless. Increments are for the whole track, not just the 1,000' to finish line.

Art, if it is a singles class, it does not matter, no one else is in it either. The AHFS is for heads up runs, it does not matter any other time as it is off your dial .

Ron Ortiz
U/SA free ride

[Colin Wigle]

Originally Posted by Lynn A McCarty

Billy,

The "trigger" method is invalid. To determine if a combo is bogus, you dont use the fastest run of an individual to compare to the average. The correct way would be to use the average run of a combination to the average standard in SS or S. Not that hard to do and much more accurate.

The second problem is that the corrective action is too small or not often enough. If a car runs 1.4 under firstly you must determine if it is due to outside forces, like AIR? When I say air I am talking about barometer, temperature, and humidity. (I ran on a 100% humidity day at Indy and that was unbelievable)

Fix it? Run a curve of an engine combo and compare those "like" engines to an average. Correct all runs like we do on our weather stations. Then we must increase the correction factor from 4HP to a much larger number.

Very true the correction should bring the 1.4 car to at least the 1.15 triger. with the current system that is not possible.