index lowering

[Mark Lewis]

Years Ago,(Monty Bogan) I had a 74 Nova. 350/265 hp, While in Jim Marshall,s study hall one day we were looking at the classification guide and the engine blue print specs for an up coming test. I discovered a California camshaft option for my car, All other specs were the same and cam was slightly bigger, duration and lift were checked then.
Jim looked it over and said that looked pretty good to him as it was only 260hp. So I claimed the lower HP and was #1 qualifiers at Atlanta
Got to go thru a thorough inspection and I was only 48 under then to be #1. I thought I was a big dog then. But 2 weeks later I saw where the HP committee made both combos 275 hp.
Suddenly went from LSA to KSA,
Point being they had a HP committee that looked all the time and not once a year, Get ratings in line and let everybody run as fast as they want.
Thats the story of the day For Bogan and Mark Alvey lol

[RileyRacingEntrprises]

Don't touch indexes

AHFS - make the average 1 second or faster for adjustments and only runs 1.20 or quicker trigger an immediate review.

Now you have helped the slower guys make index and the faster guys can go fast if they want to

[StockerStang912]

Avery - great work and really awesome to see actual data get brought to the discussion.

There's certainly been a drop-off to 2015 levels after the initial post-IHRA growth.

SS STK
2015 945 1,442
2018 1,130 1,476
2019 1,139 1,472
2022 968 1,304
2023 979 1,320

[Sean Cour]

As I read through all these posts, not one has said Stock and Super Stock is a performance category with a lot of advancements made in the last ten to twenty years to raise the performance levels! We that are reasonable quick make adjustments to ?slow down? our hot rods to keep from hitting the combos. I used to love the races where we could ?learn? what our hot rods wanted. Not anymore, as it?s all about protecting the combo, while some ?millionaire? goes out and behaves like a teenager in a whorehouse with a wallet full of cash!
If we can?t seem to keep these combos in line, move weight breaks to one pound breaks and keep the indexes the same! Separate the men from the boys, so to speak. Heads-ups will give hits and adjust accordingly!

[Mike Volkman]

I think we should reimagine and in SS, separate the carbs from injected. Lets stop looking to what was to that which can be (he- he). And i forogt, you can lie to nhra and tell them its really a carb. Now that was funny.

Volkman

[dragracerray]

Originally Posted by Sean Cour

As I read through all these posts, not one has said Stock and Super Stock is a performance category with a lot of advancements made in the last ten to twenty years to raise the performance levels! We that are reasonable quick make adjustments to ?slow down? our hot rods to keep from hitting the combos.

Sean in the cars that fast enough to intentionally slow down represents lots of time and money to get there. Lets look at the other end of the spectrum. I have heard stories (back in the 50s and 60s) where you could go to your car dealer, buy a car and be under the index. Maybe that exists today but I am not aware of it.
Here is another way to grow our sport! Add stock eliminator classes just for entry level people where they can buy a car (inexpensive car) and be under the index and then NHRA promotes it in the media. Ray

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by dragracerray

Add stock eliminator classes just for entry level people where they can buy a car (inexpensive car) and be under the index and then NHRA promotes it in the media. Ray

WOW! And we could call it "Junior Stock"! What a concept!
Let's just split Stock in half. SS too for that matter. No more 8 second cars racing 15 second cars (I wonder how they sell that to their insurance carrier). NHRA apparently doesn't have a problem adding different Eliminators to the program. They could run "Jr. Stock" right after the Juniors and Index cars and right before the Snowmobiles!

[SS/1230]

I think they should leave the indexes alone.. In my opinion it certainly tightens things for racers that are close to running the index. I understand that racers pride themselves in spending as much money as possible to be able to go a second under or more, and that means something to them, but that isn't the case for everyone. At the end of the day, its a bracket race 99% of the time. There may be certain combos that are more prominent and have more cars running the same class where you might race heads up more frequently, but i can tell you that i have had 2 heads up runs in eliminations since 2004 (one was out of division). Not enough times for me to justify spending 10s of thousands of dollars to try and go faster when I'm going to end up having to put a dial-in on the window anyways. I know some reading this can take this as an insult, or out of context, but know that I'm not trying to insult any hard working racer who loves to set records. Lets just say when I go to a race, my ultimate goal isn't to qualify #1 or to win class.. I'm more focused on winning the race, and if i lose heads up during those 6/7 rounds so be it. As infrequent as that is, ill take my chances.

Lets be honest, whether they lower the indexes or not, the same racers that are on top of the qualifying sheet will remain on top of the qualifying sheet.. I think the negative affect on the racers who are closer to running the index is being overlooked.

[bwheeler051]

I have drag raced for years but am new in the stock world.
I sure dont want to see a change in indexes while I am still testing and chasing et/hp for my combo.
I would think if they want to make a change, then use the mechanism you have in place and adjust the threshold up. Use ahfs at an earlier point to hit the combos/competitors that they feel need the hit. Use the analytics to hit the combos that show they are equally as quick to the 1000ft and do not drive it out and show their hand. The data is there. It will show what combos need some massaging and what combos seem ok.

With all that said... watching Indy with the ahfs out of the equation and how far under folks were going, this was coming.

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Well on THAT we can both agree!

I often wonder what the Racers would think if we went back to the pre-AHFS days when a Tech Official just walked up to you at a race and told you that you just got 10 HP(!) and now you have to run this class and weigh this much!

Welcome to my life as I am living it now and always have 110HP, now 105HP, but when I wasn't racing it 99HP. (Same car, same data, same factory HP rating, same Index, different class, and zero same combo performance data to even compare to...every pass on the exact combo they have are just my runs from the model year forward).

The differences I can find is the shipping wt. listed in the guide is slightly lighter (124 lbs.), than the shipping wt. published in the brochure leading to a lower natural class of DF/S instead of EF/S by 15 lbs., the eventual combining of the FWD classes (leading to a downgrade from EF/SA, FF/SA and GF/SA (where I ran it up 1 class wt. Break at 110HP in the early-mid 90s), as it called out for a natural class fit of FF/SA then. But the issue has always been the shipping weight listed and someone pulling the factoring out of their butt instead of actually being real life performance based data...11 hp or 6 hp on a factory rated 99hp is bovine feces dead wrong.

Don't pile on 3/10ths index reduction without correcting the glaring issues and kill off my combo please, as I am pedaling as fast as I can. And I am thrashing and spending all that I can and more just to make the attempt to keep up and still pay the entry fees and fuel costs to keep attending every event and compete in that I can get the car to.

My lobbying power is small, my mouth is big I know, but my struggles are real, and I am outgunned as is, piling more on top of it is not the answer. These are category wide issues, pleasing the minority at the top has large effects to the classes at the bottom...huge effects.

Definitely in my case specific potential combo killing effects.