Billet cams and lifter supply

[nolongerracing]

Originally Posted by John Duzac

Looking at the photograph of damage to the cam lobe makes me ask one question. What brand/type of oil was used in this engine?

The reason why I ask is my new 350 engine had about 30 runs on it and began to run slower and slower. I checked the leak down and one hole had 40%. I sent the engine back to my engine builder. It was discovered that all 8 pistons were ruined, along with the tool steel lifters. I always used Joe Gibbs oil and never had any problems. Gibbs oil was sold and manufactured under the name of DRIVEN oil. Samples of the used oil were sent in for testing. The results have not been received yet. Has anyone had issues using DRIVEN oil?

This is a "steel" stocker cam that had Shubeck lifters. 240/500 spring pressure. VR1 oil most of the time. Gibbs or Driven when needed. May have 200 runs on it. 15 of the 16 lobes are like this. Notice it's in the same place on the lobe. Joe Shubeck told me this is from a poor core or poor heat treat. He said to treat the cam lobe as a new "highway". As soon as the first little imperfection is found and tires keep rolling over the same area you create a "chuck hole". Thats what we have here.

[nolongerracing]

Nitride cast cam. 200/400 spring pressures. The most common issue. Tool steel or Shubeck lifters. Didn't matter. Oil, didn't matter. I was told by a cam salesman that if you got a year out of a cam like this you were "doing good". Thats why we switched to steel cams. The problem continues.
Going back to "pure stock" rules will not help. Just lost a few lobes in a stock rebuild 350 Chevy. We did everything we could for break in. Oil, additive, 1.2 rockers, 1/2 hour run time, etc, etc,. Cores are junk, lifters are junk, oil is junk, heat treat is junk.
Hate to say it.. Seems to start with the EPA!! We can't build what we need!!

[GTX JOHN]

I still run the old Isky cams that I got from them in the
80s and 90s and actual Hydraulic Schubecks from 20 =
years ago. Some same old valve springs 165 seat and some
beehives on a couple cars. Never a problem I still can run 1+
under (Some of our cars even well more) when I want it too.
Engines in a couple cars are 8 plus years of regular racing. Plus
with just only one valve job.

I am sure I am a tenth or two behind the curve
of the top dogs. However, I am not spending a lot of money to race
and I still win more heads up than I lose. NO valve train issues.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by nolongerracing

Nitride cast cam. 200/400 spring pressures. The most common issue. Tool steel or Shubeck lifters. Didn't matter. Oil, didn't matter. I was told by a cam salesman that if you got a year out of a cam like this you were "doing good". Thats why we switched to steel cams. The problem continues.
Going back to "pure stock" rules will not help. Just lost a few lobes in a stock rebuild 350 Chevy. We did everything we could for break in. Oil, additive, 1.2 rockers, 1/2 hour run time, etc, etc,. Cores are junk, lifters are junk, oil is junk, heat treat is junk.
Hate to say it.. Seems to start with the EPA!! We can't build what we need!!

If the EPA is the problem than making the parts outside the USA would fix it.


How many vehicles today run OHC on bucket setups? Which is nothing more then the cam against a flat tappet



Stan

[Mike Taylor 3601]

Originally Posted by John Duzac

Looking at the photograph of damage to the cam lobe makes me ask one question. What brand/type of oil was used in this engine?

The reason why I ask is my new 350 engine had about 30 runs on it and began to run slower and slower. I checked the leak down and one hole had 40%. I sent the engine back to my engine builder. It was discovered that all 8 pistons were ruined, along with the tool steel lifters. I always used Joe Gibbs oil and never had any problems. Gibbs oil was sold and manufactured under the name of DRIVEN oil. Samples of the used oil were sent in for testing. The results have not been received yet. Has anyone had issues using DRIVEN oil?

I started to use Gibbs break- in oil once... warehouse gave me a case to try..I was assembling my own engine,grabbed a quart....oiled up mains and installed crank(had already checked bearing clearance) crank wouldn't turn... pulled it back out... the oil did'nt have any slickness at all... cleaned off bearings and crank... lubed it up with Brad-penn or lucas break-in oil... set crank back in and torqued down... spun just like it should... I dumped that quart I opened and the other eleven in the used oil barrel...
looking back,I should have sent back to be checked...

[Frank Castros]

I'd like to hear more from Glenn Briglio on this subject.

[mnmaxwedge]

Originally Posted by Mike Taylor 3601

I started to use Gibbs break- in oil once... warehouse gave me a case to try..I was assembling my own engine,grabbed a quart....oiled up mains and installed crank(had already checked bearing clearance) crank wouldn't turn... pulled it back out... the oil did'nt have any slickness at all... cleaned off bearings and crank... lubed it up with Brad-penn or lucas break-in oil... set crank back in and torqued down... spun just like it should... I dumped that quart I opened and the other eleven in the used oil barrel...
looking back,I should have sent back to be checked...

Are you running a steel cam core or cast iron? If iron, it needs to be nitrided. If stee,l make sure you request the cam manufacturer to micro polish the cam lobes. Also you must run DLC coated tool steel lifters (the old Shubecks will work in a pinch). I work for a distributor that sells Driven Break In oil and we go through several pallets every couple weeks without any problems. On the contrary I have heard negative things about the new Penn Grade break in oil. It's not the same formula as the original Brad Penn. I have a couple of customers that have Rockwell testers. It seems that the "good" traditional flat tappet non tool steel lifters will have a hardness rating of about 60c. Lifters also need to be checked for crown. I received a tray of lifters from Sealed Power that were Chinese. They had sufficient hardness but no crown to speak of. Because of that they wouldn't rotate enough to prevent the lifter from dishing and ruining the cam lobe.

[GUMP]

Lets hear about your engine spec's and what you use for a rear and trany. How about the suspension.

Both the LT motors that I am campaigning run a stock rocker, beehive valve spring, and a full travel hydraulic lifter. The pistons, rods, and cranks are what Chevrolet put in them.

All of the transmissions and some of the converters are from my LT1 F-Body days.

The rear end is the one that came in the cars. A twelve bolt would be faster. I would prefer a torque arm. I actually proposed that to GM in 2010. The accepted replacement for the independent rear in all new cars seems to be the four link. I really don't see it as being any better than anything else in stock.