HOME FORUM RULES CONTACT
     
   
   

Go Back   CLASS RACER FORUM > Class Racer Forums > Bracket Racing
Register Photo Gallery FAQ Community Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-2011, 03:57 PM   #1
X-TECH MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Lake Placid, Florida
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,047
Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts
Thumbs down Re: The death of bracket racing........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Claridge View Post
Top 10 Things Killing Bracket Racing
-- DISCLAIMER: This is just my personal opinion from observations and conversations with racers and track managements. Please take no offense. None was intended.


Top 10 Things Killing Bracket Racing




10. Division Director

Two decisions by the division director.

a. Dropping bracket racing from division races caused bracket racing to lose exposure.

b. Making it easier for racers to make the bracket finals without supporting a track.



9. Motor Homes

For the most part, this is strictly a perception deal, but if you're not outside when newcomers are walking by, wanting to inquire about your operation or racing in general. This loses the best marketing tool we have, which is word of mouth.



8. Junior Dragsters

Although we had some junior dragster racers move up, not near as many that have been participants made the move up to bracket racing. This is a theory my mothers had that anyone serious about their hobby usually only sticks with it for 10 years and in this case, those years are being used up in junior dragster.



7. Loss of Time Trials

In the golden olden days, you could hotlap your car and get your money's worth in time trials. Let me let you guys in on a little secret: some guys actually like driving their cars, and the current trend of two time trials or maybe one, then you have to buy a time trial, or run for the money, or whatever that want to call it, leaves you with little chance to test and tune your car, because you are worried more about consistency, due to the lack of time trials.



6. Organizations

a. NHRA

In the beginning, things they did really helped the local tracks, bringing in super gas and super comp really helped jump up the local car counts. But then they started going after the local racer by bringing in super street, and now they are going after the quick racers, top dragster, and top sportsman by dangling out gold cards for the champions. Thus hurting the tracks by them having to eat the gold cards and the loss of car counts.

b. IHRA

The IHRA went directly after the sportsman, which is their job, as they've seen a market for it, but it is something else for racers to chase, and once they get hung in a points battle, they will hardly run their local tracks.

c. Independent Series

I don't know why tracks let these independent series in their gates, because they're there for one thing, and that's to convert the racers at the track to chase his series, thus more loss of revenue for the local track once the circus goes to the next town.



5. Track Owners and Management

a. Owners

Racers didn't create the need for you to hire full-time staff. You have to hire a full-time staff because of all the nights you are open that are not bracket racing. A lot of tracks are open three and four nights a week. You're not going to hit a home run on every night. And if you're leaving bracket racing out of your special programs, you're not going to get any growth either. There was a time when most track owners wore all the hats. Chief Cook and bottle washer type thing, we felt we were part of the track. But now they all have management and we hardly ever see the owners.

b. Management

This **** of ?I wanted to do this or that,? but the owner wouldn't let me has got to end. Quit trying to play the racers off of ownership. Make only promises you can keep, and never tell the racers something's written in stone, until it is in writing. A lot of racers have spent money, or changed their plans for the next season, based upon your word. Make sure your word counts.
When designing a race, be realistic. If something needs 100 cars to make the payout, and you normally only draw 20 to 30, you might want to reevaluate your thinking. If racers are constantly splitting the payout, remember you need to evaluate your pay scale.




4. Marketing

We're just not getting any exposure. Something needs to be done to get spectators in, because those are our future racers. If we don't get more people watching, it will be the end.

The total abuse of the word ?guaranteed.? It is so unrealistic for the marketing department of a track or promoter to put the word ?guaranteed? on a program that there's no way they can reach the numbers. It leaves a sour taste in the racer's mouth, and they sure as hell won't want to help a track after that.



3. Multiple Entries

The beauty of bracket racing is it's one-on-one, and when all 4 staging lights are on, it doesn't matter how much money you have in your pocket. But when somebody can bring multiple cars, or buy multiple tech cars, this is another perception is reality. And I'd like to give a great example of this in action. Back when Bill had Green Valley, and Super Pro was still a small class, the tracks in this area allowed you to race two cars in the same class, as long as they were different cars. At the end of the season on a Sunday one year, when me and my opponent when to the tower to pick up our checks, Bill pulled us over for a little chat, explaining to us how he wasn't going to let us drive multiple cars the next year. (Between us and a few other racers, that would of cost him almost 10 tech cars.) When we asked why, and how he was going to make up for the loss of entries, he explained how he thought what we were doing wasn't fair to the racers that couldn't afford to being two cars. And he would make up the money with an increased car count he would get by giving the perception everybody had one shot. We laughed at that one as we left the tower, but he got the last laugh as car counts shot through the moon, after Bill made this bold move. Funny how history repeats itself. Buybacks and multi-entries are doing the same thing to bracket racing today that bring bringing multiple cars did back then.




2. Buybacks

a. In it's original concept, buybacks may have been okay. Tracks using them to make up for low car counts to help save the track. That is the most important thing. But that's not what they're being used for now, in most cases. The use of buybacks in most cases is to create a payout artificially to help a track keep up with the Jones', or make exuberant profits.


b. Since the inception of buybacks, how many tracks have actually outgrown? In fact, the opposite has happened. Tracks have started going to multiple buybacks, and multiple tech cards. And I hear some tracks are even going to third round buybacks. It's kinda like a cocaine addict. They start taking more and more, not realizing they are getting worse and worse. Buybacks are truly stunning the growth of bracket racing.


c. Listen to some of the comments the owners have: ?No one's twisting your arm to buyback, or a lot of my racers love it.? Well, the answer to the first: ?If you went to a Vegas tournament, and play slot machines against an opponent, and you were only going to spend $20, and the tournament allowed your opponent to spend $20,000, you probably wouldn't go back to that tournament.? To the second part, buybacks increase entry fee, thus increasing cost, thus running off more racers. And besides, when you look around the country, the most successful tracks don't use them. The rest of this buyback thing I could go on about, but it's obvious some owners are hard-headed and don't want to market their track. The first thought on their mind when laying out a race is how many buybacks and entries I allow. Sorry to be so tough.





1. The number one reason is: YOU

a. That's right, you. And I'm not talking about the whining crybabies. We all know what they're doing, because of all the enclosed trailers, 8ft privacy fences, bracket racing gets zero free advertising. And yes, I'm talking about you. How many times have you been in a restaurant and you see someone looking at your hat or shirt, and say ?Dear God, I hope he doesn't come over here wanting to talk about racing.?

b. The at***ude at the track. How many times have you been standing along the fence, hearing people say how great the ownership is, but the management sucks, not walk 10 feet away, and hear how great the management is, but ownership sucks? Other people hear this too, and the talk along the fence is way worse than anything I've heard on the Internet.
c. As bracket racers, we need to be WILLING to let the tracks incorporate us in part or as a whole with their special programs, I.E. Pro Mods, Back Halves, etc., etc. This is how we get exposure. People come out to watch the pro mods, and they realize pretty quick that they wouldn't be able to afford to do that, it would be nice if there was a class there running that would look more affordable to them.

IN THE END, IT WILL BE UP TO YOU TO SAVE BRACKET RACING! IT'S THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN, AND THE WAY IT WILL ALWAYS BE!



Thank you very much for your time,

Johnny Claridge
www.voy.com/96963/
you forgot one thing.......The DELAY BOX !
X-TECH MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2011, 10:49 PM   #2
Tod Lane
Member
 
Tod Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: The death of bracket racing........

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN View Post
you forgot one thing.......The DELAY BOX !
Short, succinct, and spot on

But I would add any other timers/electronic device that drives the car for you, that controls any function a driver should be doing. I remember thinking when I first saw a delay box at Indy a few decades ago, "There goes the neighborhood".

The guy from Dedenbear said back then, and I quote, "I gives the less talented driver a chance"

But generations have grown up with them, I expect it would be hard for them to relearn to drive a car without all the gadgets. We used to tune the cars, today they tune the laptops...
__________________
Tod Lane
Swartz & Lane 66 Nova
Swartz & Lane 79 H/CM Trans Am
Tod Lane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 12:02 AM   #3
Geerhead55
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Tacoma, Washington
Posts: 1,632
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Wink Re: The death of bracket racing........

I've talked to several Super Pro/Box racers who've said they would never go back to Pro/No Box type racing. I might get my *** handed to me from time to time, but I still prefer to live and die by my own hand. I really like Stock and Superstock racing, and would love to have a stocker of my own, but its not in the cards at this time, so to get my "fix", I bracket race my Nova.
Danny Durham
Geerhead55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 10:24 AM   #4
X-TECH MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Lake Placid, Florida
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,047
Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts
Talking Re: The death of bracket racing........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geerhead55 View Post
I've talked to several Super Pro/Box racers who've said they would never go back to Pro/No Box type racing. I might get my *** handed to me from time to time, but I still prefer to live and die by my own hand. I really like Stock and Superstock racing, and would love to have a stocker of my own, but its not in the cards at this time, so to get my "fix", I bracket race my Nova.
Danny Durham
Thats because those drivers probably could not drive a nail with a hammer without electronic aids...LOL
X-TECH MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 11:17 PM   #5
Tod Lane
Member
 
Tod Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: The death of bracket racing........

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN View Post
Thats because those drivers probably could not drive a nail with a hammer without electronic aids...LOL
There is whole generation or two of drivers who will never know how good they could be...
__________________
Tod Lane
Swartz & Lane 66 Nova
Swartz & Lane 79 H/CM Trans Am
Tod Lane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 11:15 PM   #6
Tod Lane
Member
 
Tod Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: The death of bracket racing........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geerhead55 View Post
I've talked to several Super Pro/Box racers who've said they would never go back to Pro/No Box type racing. I might get my *** handed to me from time to time, but I still prefer to live and die by my own hand. I really like Stock and Superstock racing, and would love to have a stocker of my own, but its not in the cards at this time, so to get my "fix", I bracket race my Nova.
Danny Durham
Well said...
Drive, not program your car.
__________________
Tod Lane
Swartz & Lane 66 Nova
Swartz & Lane 79 H/CM Trans Am
Tod Lane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 10:17 PM   #7
cicero819
VIP Member
 
cicero819's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Aylmer Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 31
Liked 69 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: The death of bracket racing........

Drag Racing is an activity done for enjoyment on our free time, away from work. When did it become for the mighty dollar. It's not the introduction of the dragster, delay box, enclosed trailer, motorhome, trick of the week, I think greed and ego are two of the most important ingredients that have contaminated our sport. Maybe it's my Huckleberry Finn way of thinking but I was brought up in the age of doing with little, as much as you can, not the"just go out and buy the trick piece of the week mentality that perceivers now. One of the most heard sentence in a drag racer now is " I won't race my car down that track for the purse he pays, it's not enough, look I have 65k invested in my car and another $250k in my motorhome and toter are you carzy? Or I won't race against that piece of crap because of the same reasons. When did we have a Royalty class added to drag racing. I don't care who you are and how much your car is worth, just stage and shut up. The best prepared driver will win. I can remember racing in the late 70's early 80's and one of the racer was using a reaction timer box against all of us yahoo's who didn't have one(and winning) and hearing the announcer blaberring how great this guy was with his 501 lights until we discovered his little secret, he wasn't so great after he was found cheating( we had a no electronic aids of any type allowed posted). I love drag racing for that heart pounding boost shot of adrenaline I get whenever the tree is coming down. Don't blame full-time racers who are actually able to scratch a living from doing what they love(we all wish we were that committed)we should blame ourselves for not standing up for our local tracks and helping it's survival(doesn't matter that the owner is an ahole) This is the best thrill, short of being shot at, by a jealous husband. CR p.s. I couldn't think of going to a race or racing without a motorhome.(Old age has it's privilege)

Last edited by cicero819; 03-01-2011 at 10:20 PM.
cicero819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 12:19 AM   #8
Michael Kilduff
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Carolina Beach, NC
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: The death of bracket racing........

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN View Post
you forgot one thing.......The DELAY BOX !
Another is the RAIL dragster.

Some more are double entries and buy backs. I apologize for the redundancy if these have already been mentioned.

I took my street/strip car to the track today for a local bracket race. This was a 2K to win footbrake race and several racers were double entered and running 2 different cars, each entered twice! Yes, one driver with 4 actual entries. On top of that the buy backs were for first and second round.

Something else that I think is hurting bracket racing nowadays is the cost involved. Footbrake racing isn't so bad but the electronics crowd-at least around here-is seriously hooked on being the last car to leave.

The last 2 weekends we have had 4 races at two tracks within 30 miles of each other and there were quite a few sub 4.5 second cars rails (this is eigth mile) and several high 4 second full bodied cars. I would guess such cars are making 1200 HP or close to it, probably 25K engines and the trans and tires probably don't hang around for long either.

And I do think enclosed trailers have hurt all racing to a degree. Potential fans get a lot more excited seeing an actual race car on a trailer going down the highway or pulled in at a gas station than they do when they see a big white box going down the road.
__________________
IHRA STK 932 O/SA
Michael Kilduff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 11:04 AM   #9
X-TECH MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Lake Placid, Florida
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,047
Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts
Thumbs down Re: The death of bracket racing........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Kilduff View Post
Another is the RAIL dragster.

Some more are double entries and buy backs. I apologize for the redundancy if these have already been mentioned.

I took my street/strip car to the track today for a local bracket race. This was a 2K to win footbrake race and several racers were double entered and running 2 different cars, each entered twice! Yes, one driver with 4 actual entries. On top of that the buy backs were for first and second round.

Something else that I think is hurting bracket racing nowadays is the cost involved. Footbrake racing isn't so bad but the electronics crowd-at least around here-is seriously hooked on being the last car to leave.

The last 2 weekends we have had 4 races at two tracks within 30 miles of each other and there were quite a few sub 4.5 second cars rails (this is eigth mile) and several high 4 second full bodied cars. I would guess such cars are making 1200 HP or close to it, probably 25K engines and the trans and tires probably don't hang around for long either.

And I do think enclosed trailers have hurt all racing to a degree. Potential fans get a lot more excited seeing an actual race car on a trailer going down the highway or pulled in at a gas station than they do when they see a big white box going down the road.
Without the delay box the dragsters are no better than a door car. Probably worse as I dont recall very many doing well until the delay box came out along with the trans brake.
X-TECH MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 08:34 PM   #10
Tod Lane
Member
 
Tod Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: The death of bracket racing........

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN View Post
Without the delay box the dragsters are no better than a door car. Probably worse as I dont recall very many doing well until the delay box came out along with the trans brake.
We used to make a living off them... Took out four one night in Muncie, including a Top Alky car that was testing and actually made it a round or two.
We were dialed somewhere in the tens, I left and I looked back better than half way down the track or more he was still siting still, About 3/4 way down I saw a big flash in the mirror and I thought "he blew the POS up" and thought about peddling it. Glad I didn't, he blew by me about two feet past the finish line, I thought he was going to suck the paint off the car as he went past! The flash I saw was him leaving.

We went a lot of rounds without all the driving aids, I don't ever aim to change if I can find a way to race with out them
__________________
Tod Lane
Swartz & Lane 66 Nova
Swartz & Lane 79 H/CM Trans Am
Tod Lane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Class Racer.com. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.