The damage recently done

[Toby Lang]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

If you have the proper paperwork then just post it on here ...

I assume this isn't happening.


-Toby

[Jeff Lee]

Billy...I don't owe you or the horse you rode in on...squat! I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[Andrew Hill]

What I want to know is, with all of these extra performance parts approved for various combos, not just the AMCs, does it really feel like an accomplishment when you outrun the next guy who runs the parts his car came with? Running a second under with the autolite carb and cast iron intake, I'm sure, feels like a huge accomplishment. Won't the aftermarket parts dilute that? What is the point in going 1.40 under when you could go 1.00 under or more with the stock stuff? Obviously, the horsepower factors are never going to be perfect, but if Mr. Lee ran 10.50s 7 years ago, it definitely was not a bad combination before the 780 Holley, aluminum intake, and big cam. I would much rather run fast with a legit combination than a soft one, but I guess that's why I have no desire to run a new car.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hill

Mr. Lee ran 10.50s 7 years ago, it definitely was not a bad combination before the 780 Holley, aluminum intake, and big cam.

It shouldn't be a bad combination! Before he got all of these new parts approved he worked the HP committee for a 25 HP reduction. All of these affected combos have already been given HP reductions prior to the new parts.

[Charley Downing]

Andrew I don't see to many stockers with stock parts
Acid ported heads and intake
Aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, roller rockers
Metric Trans that was never offered in the 1960's and early 70's
Your beloved 1960's and 1970's stockers are far from stock as new cars. Old combos are as much of the problem as new combs.

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Andrew I don't see to many stockers with stock parts
Acid ported heads and intake
Aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, roller rockers
Metric Trans that was never offered in the 1960's and early 70's
Your beloved 1960's and 1970's stockers are far from stock as new cars. Old combos are as much of the problem as new combs.

You're right that stock doesn't have nearly as much stock as it used to, but everyone has aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, etc. Those rules are the same for all combinations, and it's a lot different than completely replacing an intake with a much better one, a completely different carburetor that flows 1.5x or more what the old one did, and a cam with larger lift. It's obvious stock has progressed a lot, but my car still has the heads that came on it in 1970, same with the untouched intake manifold, type of carburetor (yes it's an aftermarket one but the same design), etc. None of the new cars are as close to stock as mine, although some are close just with messed up HP factors. Even the ones like yours, essentially the motor that came in the Mustang GTs before the 5.0, have more compression that the stock ones.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hill

You're right that stock doesn't have nearly as much stock as it used to, but everyone has aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, etc. Those rules are the same for all combinations, and it's a lot different than completely replacing an intake with a much better one, a completely different carburetor that flows 1.5x or more what the old one did, and a cam with larger lift. It's obvious stock has progressed a lot, but my car still has the heads that came on it in 1970, same with the untouched intake manifold, type of carburetor (yes it's an aftermarket one but the same design), etc. None of the new cars are as close to stock as mine, although some are close just with messed up HP factors. Even the ones like yours, essentially the motor that came in the Mustang GTs before the 5.0, have more compression that the stock ones.

I'll agree with much of what you said here Andrew, as long as the slower half of Stock isn't included with that, because I think the slower rollers are much more stock like than the faster half of the category...one glaring bit of proof; I don't see slower rollers with wheelie bars, or a mention of Cal-tracs on them. Furthermore, I think I can safely assume that the major percentage of engine parts on all fwd combos are stock (only the camshaft and needed supporting parts are aftermarket on my car)....I think that applies also to the R/S(A), and lower classes too (maybe to some of the quicker versions of the slower roller classes)?

My car is about as stock as stock can get, which is one of the reasons I still dislike NHRA reducing the indexes .3 seconds, and changing our altitude correction factors to resemble the Super Classes. NHRA, PLEASE EITHER GIVE US BACK THOSE .3 OF A SECOND, AND/OR GIVE US BACK OUR STOCK/SUPER STOCK ALTITUDE CORRECTION FACTORS....THEY WERE MORE FAIR TO ALL CLASSES, AND TO RACERS IN ALL TRACKS!!!

[Jim Kaekel]

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Your beloved 1960's and 1970's stockers are far from stock as new cars. Old combos are as much of the problem as new combs.

Sorry Charlie, but that statement is not correct. My car (as many other Stockers) had over 140,000 miles before I turned it into a race car. The Cobra Jets, Drag Paks and new COPOS were never available to the general motoring public and certainly not legal to drive on public roads.

[Stocker 2]

Originally Posted by Jim Kaekel

Sorry Charlie, but that statement is not correct. My car (as many other Stockers) had over 140,000 miles before I turned it into a race car. The Cobra Jets, Drag Paks and new COPOS were never available to the general motoring public and certainly not legal to drive on public roads.

Plus the fact that the new cars that ARE available to the general motoring public and ARE legal to drive on public roads.........are NOT legal to be raced in Stock class.

Now explain that one to somebody who decides to take their newer car off the street and set it up for Stock Eliminator. THEY WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT !!!!!!!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Billy...I don't owe you or the horse you rode in on...squat! I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Anybody that submits specs to NHRA for parts that were questionably never installed by the manufacturer should at least publish the said specs for his peers to read.
You don't owe me squat but you sir, in my humble opinion, are a liar and a cheater! And I don't know how to make it any clearer.