Misconception on a slow stocker winning - Page 2

Mike Carr · 06-08-2012, 10:18 AM

I raced FWD Stockers for several years (2001-2006), and for all the reasons everyone has previously stated, yes, it is rather dificult to win in a slower car. Of course, everyone's idea of "slow" may differ. At E-town last weekend, I counted five Stockers, out of 80+, that were slower than 12.00. Like Michael said, when, probably, 75% (maybe more?) of the Stockers in the country are quicker than 12.00 (with a ton of 8.90 to 11.30 cars), it stands to reason they will win the most. Same with S/S, where the majority of cars winning are mid 8's to mid/high9's, with a few 10 and 11 second cars that have won over the years.

That said, a good driver, with experience, CAN be competitive in a slower car. Jody Lang has shown that for years in his12 second L-N/SA wagon. Michael Beard and myself have both gone many rounds, more than once, in FWD cars (Michel won a Combo race, maybe two, in an FF/SA Turismo, I finished eighth in IHRA Stock Division 1 points in 2003 and 2004 in a 17 second HF/SA Sunbird). Steve Klacik has gone rounds, and won races, in his street-driven 14 second H/PS Mustang. Billy Nees has won National and Divisional events in a 14 second V/SA Nova. Ed Fernandez has won races in his 13 second R-T/SA Gremlin (yes, a Gremlin). I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones in recent history that have proved that you can do it. Difficult, but do-able. Plus, they are lower budget, lower maintanence cars compared to 9 to11 second cars. We can argue the pros and cons of each all day long. Basically, for those starting in Stock, you have a broad choice of cars to pick from, which makes Stock "way cool". ")

Dennis P Chapman · 06-08-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

I raced FWD Stockers for several years (2001-2006), and for all the reasons everyone has previously stated, yes, it is rather dificult to win in a slower car. Of course, everyone's idea of "slow" may differ. At E-town last weekend, I counted five Stockers, out of 80+, that were slower than 12.00. Like Michael said, when, probably, 75% (maybe more?) of the Stockers in the country are quicker than 12.00 (with a ton of 8.90 to 11.30 cars), it stands to reason they will win the most. Same with S/S, where the majority of cars winning are mid 8's to mid/high9's, with a few 10 and 11 second cars that have won over the years.

That said, a good driver, with experience, CAN be competitive in a slower car. Jody Lang has shown that for years in his12 second L-N/SA wagon. Michael Beard and myself have both gone many rounds, more than once, in FWD cars (Michel won a Combo race, maybe two, in an FF/SA Turismo, I finished eighth in IHRA Stock Division 1 points in 2003 and 2004 in a 17 second HF/SA Sunbird). Steve Klacik has gone rounds, and won races, in his street-driven 14 second H/PS Mustang. Billy Nees has won National and Divisional events in a 14 second V/SA Nova. Ed Fernandez has won races in his 13 second R-T/SA Gremlin (yes, a Gremlin). I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones in recent history that have proved that you can do it. Difficult, but do-able. Plus, they are lower budget, lower maintanence cars compared to 9 to11 second cars. We can argue the pros and cons of each all day long. Basically, for those starting in Stock, you have a broad choice of cars to pick from, which makes Stock "way cool". ")

x2

Ron Ortiz · 06-08-2012, 02:20 PM

When you all start talking about slow cars your usually referring to 12 seconds or slower.
12 seconds is not slow compared to a 9 second car, but 14 seconds it is. These 12 sec cars can gauge a fast chaser reasonably well, as can the chaser gauge.

Now a 14 sec car such as mine is real easy to gauge by them 9-10 sec cars. Ask any of them high flying speedsters how easy it is to judge a slug just about at a stand still at the finish line.

In a real slow stocker you need a couple of talents to gauge correctly.
First and foremost, the ability to lick your back, this keeps the view in perspective.
Second, keep a log book to track all of the important stuff like wind, direction, dew point. This info is very valuable for your dial in as it has the most bearing.
Third, cut a good light, piece of cake.
Fourth, at about the 1,000 foot mark look for friends and relatives on the fence for instant input, this can be easily done through facial recognition.
Fifth, have fun during the run, turn on a directional signal, wave to people, if you have power windows put it down as your opponent is closing in as if you need directions.

So, there you have it, now go out and get yourself a slow car.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA slowness is dimensional phases

KRatcliff · 06-08-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Fourth, at about the 1,000 foot mark look for friends and relatives on the fence for instant input, this can be easily done through facial recognition.
......
Ron Ortiz
U/SA slowness is dimensional phases

Can't they just text you?

Ron Ortiz · 06-08-2012, 08:08 PM

Kyle, you still have to read the text message, and that is trying to cut it a little bit close. The look on their faces and their arms waving is the quickest read. But, like I stated that is only a bit of the equation. Human facial reactions occur at a rate of roughly 1.697 per millisecond, discounting muscle flex and brain wave transmittal. Thus, texting is not the way to go. I know that I stated at the 1,000 foot mark, but I was being conservative by about 995 feet.

How about some comments from some of you 9-10 sec cars on chasing a slow car (14 sec)

BTW Kyle, it took me about 5 minutes to stop laughing about your post. Good one.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA reactions are reactionary

KRatcliff · 06-08-2012, 08:10 PM

Jack McCarthy · 06-08-2012, 08:34 PM

god couldnt win the eliminator in the witch doctor V/S

but the fast guys dont like racing us either !

captain jack
37 years of being chased !

1stage1 · 06-09-2012, 08:46 AM

Lisa Bolton-Moser axlemania winner !!!!!!!!!!!

Dwight Southerland · 06-09-2012, 08:50 AM

A couple of thoughts. 1) When looking at a slow combination, pick one that has a large carb/throttle body relative to engine size. They seem to be less sensitive to weather change. 2) Weather station-based predictor software seems to be geared more to faster cars with more efficient engines. Some may be better suited than others for an slower car. I would think that highly detailed historical data for your particular combination would be invaluable. (that translates to seat time, too). **.02, please.

cicero819 · 06-10-2012, 10:38 AM

Ok guys, this is probably my bracket racing experience but cars shouldn't drop that much. I know that Mark Yacavone is probably one of the only one to win in his F/Front wheel stocker with his 81 Ford Escort except now with better traction from tire compound and R&D from manufacturer I can't believe that we can't come up with some better combos.Calling Billy Nees and Mark Yacavone(I remember the Land Shark) to come up with a real dime racer for the challenge, beat up on the **100k and over stocker with a **5k car.(open to everyone) Claude

06-08-2012, 10:18 AM	#11
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: Misconception on a slow stocker winning I raced FWD Stockers for several years (2001-2006), and for all the reasons everyone has previously stated, yes, it is rather dificult to win in a slower car. Of course, everyone's idea of "slow" may differ. At E-town last weekend, I counted five Stockers, out of 80+, that were slower than 12.00. Like Michael said, when, probably, 75% (maybe more?) of the Stockers in the country are quicker than 12.00 (with a ton of 8.90 to 11.30 cars), it stands to reason they will win the most. Same with S/S, where the majority of cars winning are mid 8's to mid/high9's, with a few 10 and 11 second cars that have won over the years. That said, a good driver, with experience, CAN be competitive in a slower car. Jody Lang has shown that for years in his12 second L-N/SA wagon. Michael Beard and myself have both gone many rounds, more than once, in FWD cars (Michel won a Combo race, maybe two, in an FF/SA Turismo, I finished eighth in IHRA Stock Division 1 points in 2003 and 2004 in a 17 second HF/SA Sunbird). Steve Klacik has gone rounds, and won races, in his street-driven 14 second H/PS Mustang. Billy Nees has won National and Divisional events in a 14 second V/SA Nova. Ed Fernandez has won races in his 13 second R-T/SA Gremlin (yes, a Gremlin). I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones in recent history that have proved that you can do it. Difficult, but do-able. Plus, they are lower budget, lower maintanence cars compared to 9 to11 second cars. We can argue the pros and cons of each all day long. Basically, for those starting in Stock, you have a broad choice of cars to pick from, which makes Stock "way cool". ") __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

06-08-2012, 02:20 PM	#13
Ron Ortiz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Englewood, Florida Posts: 989 Likes: 35 Liked 317 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Misconception on a slow stocker winning When you all start talking about slow cars your usually referring to 12 seconds or slower. 12 seconds is not slow compared to a 9 second car, but 14 seconds it is. These 12 sec cars can gauge a fast chaser reasonably well, as can the chaser gauge. Now a 14 sec car such as mine is real easy to gauge by them 9-10 sec cars. Ask any of them high flying speedsters how easy it is to judge a slug just about at a stand still at the finish line. In a real slow stocker you need a couple of talents to gauge correctly. First and foremost, the ability to lick your back, this keeps the view in perspective. Second, keep a log book to track all of the important stuff like wind, direction, dew point. This info is very valuable for your dial in as it has the most bearing. Third, cut a good light, piece of cake. Fourth, at about the 1,000 foot mark look for friends and relatives on the fence for instant input, this can be easily done through facial recognition. Fifth, have fun during the run, turn on a directional signal, wave to people, if you have power windows put it down as your opponent is closing in as if you need directions. So, there you have it, now go out and get yourself a slow car. Ron Ortiz U/SA slowness is dimensional phases __________________ Ron Ortiz 2102 STK

06-08-2012, 08:08 PM	#15
Ron Ortiz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Englewood, Florida Posts: 989 Likes: 35 Liked 317 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Misconception on a slow stocker winning Kyle, you still have to read the text message, and that is trying to cut it a little bit close. The look on their faces and their arms waving is the quickest read. But, like I stated that is only a bit of the equation. Human facial reactions occur at a rate of roughly 1.697 per millisecond, discounting muscle flex and brain wave transmittal. Thus, texting is not the way to go. I know that I stated at the 1,000 foot mark, but I was being conservative by about 995 feet. How about some comments from some of you 9-10 sec cars on chasing a slow car (14 sec) BTW Kyle, it took me about 5 minutes to stop laughing about your post. Good one. Ron Ortiz U/SA reactions are reactionary __________________ Ron Ortiz 2102 STK

06-08-2012, 08:10 PM	#16
KRatcliff Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 766 Likes: 75 Liked 524 Times in 141 Posts	Re: Misconception on a slow stocker winning

06-08-2012, 08:34 PM	#17
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,322 Likes: 29 Liked 476 Times in 117 Posts	Re: Misconception on a slow stocker winning god couldnt win the eliminator in the witch doctor V/S but the fast guys dont like racing us either ! captain jack 37 years of being chased ! __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

06-09-2012, 08:46 AM	#18
1stage1 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Misconception on a slow stocker winning Lisa Bolton-Moser axlemania winner !!!!!!!!!!!

06-09-2012, 08:50 AM	#19
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 2,001 Likes: 64 Liked 780 Times in 194 Posts	Re: Misconception on a slow stocker winning A couple of thoughts. 1) When looking at a slow combination, pick one that has a large carb/throttle body relative to engine size. They seem to be less sensitive to weather change. 2) Weather station-based predictor software seems to be geared more to faster cars with more efficient engines. Some may be better suited than others for an slower car. I would think that highly detailed historical data for your particular combination would be invaluable. (that translates to seat time, too). **.02, please.

06-10-2012, 10:38 AM	#20
cicero819 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aylmer Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,086 Likes: 31 Liked 69 Times in 30 Posts	Re: Misconception on a slow stocker winning Ok guys, this is probably my bracket racing experience but cars shouldn't drop that much. I know that Mark Yacavone is probably one of the only one to win in his F/Front wheel stocker with his 81 Ford Escort except now with better traction from tire compound and R&D from manufacturer I can't believe that we can't come up with some better combos.Calling Billy Nees and Mark Yacavone(I remember the Land Shark) to come up with a real dime racer for the challenge, beat up on the 100k and over stocker with a 5k car.(open to everyone) Claude