How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?

[goinbroke2]

Well, you commented on the first two lines of the post, what about the remainder?

I agree it isn't right.

I was also directly replying to the post about "look who's the official veh"
THAT is crying, plain and simple. Making excuses about why you can't compete. It's not that it's FORD, it's that it is something that shouldn't be allowed.

You can debate the merits of something, that's fine, but when somebody throws in the gratuitous "that's because it's a XXX" it takes away from the real message or point.

I just grabbed an old rulebook for reference, SS/GT is "any production v-8 of the same make" OK, 428w would fit there.
Interestingly enough, for SS it doesn't specify engine, it only says "only those cars listed in the guide are eligible" and "all cars factory production assembled"
Well, if it was never "factory production assembled" (in other words, the 428W was never factory assembled in a car, technically it shouldn't be allowed)

It comes down to manufacturers asking and getting something for a better ROI. No more, no less. Of course any factory that did this is doing it their own best interest.(in other words can't fault mopar or ford)
The blame falls directly at the feet of NHRA for allowing this.

An example;
Like nascar, toyota want's to play in S/SS. So, they spend huge $$ building v-8 rwd corolla's just to stick in the guide. They are twin turbo/blah/blah/blah rated at 200hp.
Now, who's fault is it when bogus toyota's start cleaning house?

Toyota because they gave free ****box imports to everybody in the nhra?

Or NHRA because they whored themselves out to the highest bidder?

Think about it, THAT'S what I mean by crying and placing blame on the wrong party because they don't like said party.

[cutta]

Shouldn't the question be more about the underfactored part than anything? There aren't going to be many more high HP cars released from factory in a high rate of production so I think it would be senseless for us to argue that. With the gas consumption phenomena, its just not going to happen unless its a very low HP combo. Special order cars are probably the closest we will get to any of the muscle cars of yesteryear. I think the focus should remain with getting car factored more correctly.

On a side note, I see that none of the new ford guys wanted to show their full potential but it was obvious they knew how to use the brakes lol.



Oh yeah I've got a solution for fixing the fords and dodges. Somebody who passionately believes that the cars need be refactored should by a DP and a CJ. Tune them all the way up, go to a race and run them all the way out. After 3 or 4 events of that, things will be adjusted and you could sell the cars, problem solved lol! This way, you don't have to wait on NHRA to change it, you could just change it yourself lol! Now, you guys just need to pool the money and decide on a driver. Haha, this would make alot of people happy and alot of people mad but I would love to see it happen.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by cutta

Shouldn't the question be more about the underfactored part than anything? There aren't going to be many more high HP cars released from factory in a high rate of production so I think it would be senseless for us to argue that. With the gas consumption phenomena, its just not going to happen unless its a very low HP combo. Special order cars are probably the closest we will get to any of the muscle cars of yesteryear. I think the focus should remain with getting car factored more correctly.

On a side note, I see that none of the new ford guys wanted to show their full potential but it was obvious they knew how to use the brakes lol.



Oh yeah I've got a solution for fixing the fords and dodges. Somebody who passionately believes that the cars need be refactored should by a DP and a CJ. Tune them all the way up, go to a race and run them all the way out. After 3 or 4 events of that, things will be adjusted and you could sell the cars, problem solved lol! This way, you don't have to wait on NHRA to change it, you could just change it yourself lol! Now, you guys just need to pool the money and decide on a driver. Haha, this would make alot of people happy and alot of people mad but I would love to see it happen.

um there's a 556hp caddy, a 556hp camaro next year, a 660hp mustang, and a 638 hp vette ( plus a 505hp Z06). What the hell are you talking about?

[cutta]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

um there's a 556hp caddy, a 556hp camaro next year, a 660hp mustang, and a 638 hp vette ( plus a 505hp Z06). What the hell are you talking about?

Point taken but I guess I should have been more clear in my comment. I don't think racers should expect for race ready cars like the CJ's and DP's to be street available cars. The times we live in will not allow for cars such as the "Thunderbolt or Hemi Darts/Cudas" to be manufactured as street available cars or in high production numbers in my opinion. Thats why I think it is a mute point to argue these days. I think the focus should be on getting the factor correct. Sorry about that, I didn't think my thoughts out clearly enough.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by cutta

I don't think racers should expect for race ready cars like the CJ's and DP's to be street available cars. The times we live in will not allow for cars such as the "Thunderbolt or Hemi Darts/Cudas" to be manufactured as street available cars or in high production numbers in my opinion.

The cars you speak of were put in Super stock, not Stock Eliminator. You've illustrated perfectly the point I've been making for about 3 years now. Thanks. The basic premise of Stock Eliminator is, or actually, was, that the cars legal for the class were originally street legal production cars. That was the entire point of the class, NOT having one off trick purpose built race cars in the class. That's why they put those Hemi Darts and Cudas in Super Stock from day one, and why the rest of these factory race cars belong in Super Stock.

And in allowing those cars in Stock Eliminator, NHRA has completely changed the character and premise of the class, and effectively rendered everything else obsolete. Now they can and will allow any manufacturer that they want to add a new paper combination whenever they want. Because they do not have to produce the cars anymore, they just have to add paper to a catalog. They can create, on paper, a new combination any time they want. It's a completely unsustainable business model that is directly contrary to the best interests of the class.

[novassdude]

Exactly they are making some great cars. Just put them in the guide just like before and let people build them if they want. If they want to make light weight versions put them in Superstock just like was done before.

[cutta]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

The cars you speak of were put in Super stock, not Stock Eliminator. You've illustrated perfectly the point I've been making for about 3 years now. Thanks. The basic premise of Stock Eliminator is, or actually, was, that the cars legal for the class were originally street legal production cars. That was the entire point of the class, NOT having one off trick purpose built race cars in the class. That's why they put those Hemi Darts and Cudas in Super Stock from day one, and why the rest of these factory race cars belong in Super Stock.

And in allowing those cars in Stock Eliminator, NHRA has completely changed the character and premise of the class, and effectively rendered everything else obsolete. Now they can and will allow any manufacturer that they want to add a new paper combination whenever they want. Because they do not have to produce the cars anymore, they just have to add paper to a catalog. They can create, on paper, a new combination any time they want. It's a completely unsustainable business model that is directly contrary to the best interests of the class.

Point taken and understood. My understanding of the class was a little different.

[Phillip marvetz]

Let's not forget that if you walk into a dealership and buy and new street legal Mustang or Challenger you wont be able to race it in stock. CJ's and DP's only, How does this help the factory's sell more car's?....................


NHRA, Put the real car's in guides with real HP factors.

[Marvin Robinson]

Originally Posted by alan roehrich

the cars you speak of were put in super stock, not stock eliminator. You've illustrated perfectly the point i've been making for about 3 years now. Thanks. The basic premise of stock eliminator is, or actually, was, that the cars legal for the class were originally street legal production cars. That was the entire point of the class, not having one off trick purpose built race cars in the class. That's why they put those hemi darts and cudas in super stock from day one, and why the rest of these factory race cars belong in super stock.

And in allowing those cars in stock eliminator, nhra has completely changed the character and premise of the class, and effectively rendered everything else obsolete. Now they can and will allow any manufacturer that they want to add a new paper combination whenever they want. Because they do not have to produce the cars anymore, they just have to add paper to a catalog. They can create, on paper, a new combination any time they want. It's a completely unsustainable business model that is directly contrary to the best interests of the class.

x2

[david ring]

Originally Posted by goinbroke2

I was also directly replying to the post about "look who's the official veh"
THAT is crying, plain and simple. Think about it, THAT'S what I mean by crying and placing blame on the wrong party because they don't like said party.

Actually, I was making an observation-I might be wrong in my observation, but I wasn't crying. The motor in my comp car is out of a Colorado pick-up truck, but some of my closest friends in comp are sponsored by Varsity Ford and that dealership is sponsoring some of the new CJs. I love what the Bollmans do in comp with their Fords and oh yeah, I love the new CJ Erich has. Another one of my friends, Rich Rodgers, has a CJ. I like these new cars, and I know I'm going to get shot for saying this, the DP's too. I can't wait to see the new Camaros out there racing.

Again, I was making an observation-not complaining. That observation may be wrong and perhaps all NHRA is trying to do is get new cars into stock and help Ford and Chrysler sell some new cars. Heaven forbid that anyone should try to help the American car companies sell cars.