3.25% for the DP & CJ is just a slap in the face

[Gary Parker]

Charlie, I know how to keep me in the sport. Lower my horse power rating.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Jason

Time line - late 1960's......if there was an internet back then it would have gone something like this.

"Everyone with 55-57 Chevy stockers are being run out of business. These new Mustangs and Camaros should be put in a different class. We just cannot compete with those new factory built cars. They need to have horsepower added to them or else I'm going to have to quit racing. NHRA needs to do something before Stock is gone."

Well in 1972 NHRA did do something.

Maybe NHRA should do it again like they did in 1972? Todays stockers are already "Super" with all of the allowed modifications,such as wheelie bars, ported heads and intakes, aftermarket alum heads, small journal rods, light wt. short block assemblys, transmissions that never came behind the engines being used, roll cages, elec. water pump drives, heavy pressure valve springs, paper cars, factory limited production combos and on and on and on ! It just could be thier plan for the future? Has anyone ever "THUNK" about that? Maybe history will repeat its self?

[chevy620]

Having just sold my Stocker, that I ran in NHRA, I think the trend to buying a $100,000.00 Stocker and $100,000+ S/Stocker is only growing the class because the guys with cash are getting into it with the hope of the "collector car" paying off down the road. I didn;t notice many of the "new Stockers" in anything but a Gold Rush or Renegade trailer with a Toter or a $300K pusher pulling them (usually two of them). That's cool, and I can appreciate wealth and it's benefits. I just think it is a shame what it will do to Stock and S/Stock eliminator in the long run.

I really liked the Stock class, the guys who run it and the inventive ways they tried to gain an edge. Now it seems you just get out the checkbook, hope NHRA doesn't really factor you correctly and go beat up on conventional cars in the class.

I feel NHRA is going to have to separate the new generation Stocker from the carbureted Stockers. Just too much computer controlled fuel and timing management for carbs to compete against (not to mention they are WAY OFF on H.P. numbers) Just give the new-gen cars their own set of classes and let them beat each other up in class or during heads-up runs in Eliminations.

Not really any different than the way NHRA has allowed all the "Comp cars" into S/Stock. Hood scoops, tube chassis, sheet metal intakes, $30K small blocks running 8.90s. Are those Cobalts and such REALLY a Super Stock car? Are the conventional Camaro or Mopar S/Stockers really on a level playing field as far as reliability and repeatability with a completely fabricated Super Stock Cobalt?

The latest versions of these 8-second S/Stockers will and are doing to the class what rear engine dragsters did to bracket racing. It is a distinct advantage to "come from behind" and to that end racers will drop $130K to have a better shot at winning that elusive Wally. When the guys who really want to win all get the fastest cars, you will have smaller fields of very similar cars, ala bracket racing. Then the uniqueness of S/Stock starts it's trip down memory lane.

Just my opinion as I sat and watched Stock and S/Stock at Indy. Fun to watch, no doubt, but not headed in any sort of direction that will grow the sport.

Good luck to all of you and I hope you choice of class and car turns into a winning combination for you. I have to admit it was nice to see over 300 cars in Stock and S/Stock at Indy....will be interesting to see if that ever happens again after seeing so many excellent cars go home because the new-gen Fords and Mopars ran all over them in class and qualifying.

Jok
"nuthin' but a dragster driver now"

[Michael Beard]

>> 160 plus stockers and SS at at the 2010 US nationals. Where is that kind of car count in IHRA Mike B?

There isn't. -=shrug=- You got me... I raced four times in three days this weekend, did so on a budget, made good money. Just because the majority of people do one thing doesn't mean that it's the best or makes the most sense. If people who live within a reasonable distance of IHRA events don't support those events, whose fault is it? Those who try it overwhelmingly have a positive experience. What exactly does any of that have to do with the policies of NHRA? Car counts at the US Nationals are because it's the US Nationals at Indy. Even other NHRA events don't come close. The US Class Nationals drew even more cars, which tells us that it's the kind of racing people want to do, not the sanctioning body that makes the difference.

>> 80% of you bitching don't even race at INDY or with NHRA.

I have raced NHRA (Finished #11 in NHRA Div. 1 in my rookie year, and that was in a FWD car.), and I have competed at Indy. NHRA has a number of issues that I don't agree with, so after expressing my opinion about them, I choose to race elsewhere 99% of the time. I'm not into the "battered wife syndrome". Banging your head against the wall doesn't give one's opinion more credibility.

>> Yes HP factors are way out of line right now,

....SOOOOOoooooooo make it right! (or at least make an honest effort to get it in the right zip code) That's all anybody's really asking for!

>>but look at how many new cars and people are in S and SS now.

Yah. $100,000 cars are a great way to get new blood into the sport. That's sustainable. How many new people *are* in S/SS now? That vast majority of people in the new cars are not new to the sport. I think the new cars are really cool, and I wouldn't mind driving one myself, but nobody can tell you with a straight face that they are any semblance of right.

"CJ's and DP's are great because they bring new cars and people into the sport, and it's okay that they're not factored right".... Funny, you don't say the same about the "evil Crate Motor cars", which have brought MANY times the number of cars and people into the sport, and they complain about how soft the crate motor cars are, while the 360 Magnum crate motor is rated 50 HP more than the 5.9L DP engine, which has better specs all the way around. I don't care which side of the argument you support, but be consistent.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

>> 160 plus stockers and SS at at the 2010 US nationals. Where is that kind of car count in IHRA Mike B?

There isn't. -=shrug=- You got me... I raced four times in three days this weekend, did so on a budget, made good money. Just because the majority of people do one thing doesn't mean that it's the best or makes the most sense. If people who live within a reasonable distance of IHRA events don't support those events, whose fault is it? Those who try it overwhelmingly have a positive experience. What exactly does any of that have to do with the policies of NHRA? Car counts at the US Nationals are because it's the US Nationals at Indy. Even other NHRA events don't come close. The US Class Nationals drew even more cars, which tells us that it's the kind of racing people want to do, not the sanctioning body that makes the difference.

>> 80% of you bitching don't even race at INDY or with NHRA.

I have raced NHRA (Finished #11 in NHRA Div. 1 in my rookie year, and that was in a FWD car.), and I have competed at Indy. NHRA has a number of issues that I don't agree with, so after expressing my opinion about them, I choose to race elsewhere 99% of the time. I'm not into the "battered wife syndrome". Banging your head against the wall doesn't give one's opinion more credibility.

>> Yes HP factors are way out of line right now,

....SOOOOOoooooooo make it right! (or at least make an honest effort to get it in the right zip code) That's all anybody's really asking for!

>>but look at how many new cars and people are in S and SS now.

Yah. $100,000 cars are a great way to get new blood into the sport. That's sustainable. How many new people *are* in S/SS now? That vast majority of people in the new cars are not new to the sport. I think the new cars are really cool, and I wouldn't mind driving one myself, but nobody can tell you with a straight face that they are any semblance of right.

"CJ's and DP's are great because they bring new cars and people into the sport, and it's okay that they're not factored right".... Funny, you don't say the same about the "evil Crate Motor cars", which have brought MANY times the number of cars and people into the sport, and they complain about how soft the crate motor cars are, while the 360 Magnum crate motor is rated 50 HP more than the 5.9L DP engine, which has better specs all the way around. I don't care which side of the argument you support, but be consistent.

"Battered Wife Syndrome" !.....LOL. I couldnt have said it better. Way to go Michael.

[Jeff Teuton]

Before all yall lose your rudder completely, the 6.1 has been hit twice in the past year and is in line for another at the end of the year, the 5.7 has been hit 21 hp in the last 60 to 90 days, and will get some more before the end of the year, and the 360 has been to two national events this year in stock eliminator and was hit once for 9 hp. With that many cars out there, the system will work in short order. And the cars don't cost 100k. Mine cost 60k less the value of a 6.1 dp motor which wholesales for 14k that I have in an engine stand. I guess it was ok for the 396's and 428's to kick everyone up till now. Or the mid 80's efi motors, or the other combos that go fast. And complain about them driving cars out, it looks like it was happening anyway. Bring back the EFI classes? Might be an option, stick/auto? SS/AH shows you can have two factors in one class. Make some heads up classes? Next year I'm gonna bring my wife's PT Cruiser Covertable Turbo. I gotta say it was more fun running 4 tenths faster in class than it was running 4 tenths slower last year. But I don't remember complaining about losing by 4 tenths. I did something about it. I got another car. On another note, I have been asking NHRA for new parts for the old cars for 15 years. I am still asking, especially heads, as the 40 year old parts that I ran until now were scarce, rusty, and beat up. And let's face it, an out the box Edlebrock head is better than the acid or other means ported heads in stock and cost about half as much.

[Jim Kaekel]

[QUOTE=Michael Beard;208944]
>> 80% of you bitching don't even race at INDY or with NHRA.

Actually Michael, most of the people posting here do race NHRA or have raced at the US Nationals. I ran it in '96, '97 and '98. Unfortunately, I gave up after I couldn't make the field the last two years.
IHRA is an alternative for some, that I have personally supported and participated in myself, but it appears that they are on the downturn due to the economy and the Evan Knoll/Torco fiasco. They put too many eggs in Evan's basket and are now paying for it dearly.

[jmcarter]

Here's the Reading entry list sorted by class...people may moan and groan but above all else they want to race....no withdrawals since Indy so apparently if people have a car they can't class differently than an entered 'killer' car they just hope they avoid it during eliminations.

Just saying.....

18 A/S Ralph Porpora '69 Camaro Chev 396
1330 A/S David Casey '69 Corvette Chev 427
3602 A/S Jason Mc Cormack '66 Belvedere Plym 426
1073 A/SA Edward Horensky '68 Shelby Ford 428
117K A/SA Brooks Lee '69 Camaro Chev 396
1199 A/SA Steve Calabro '69 Corvette Chev 427
1242 A/SA Jc James Beattie JR '09 Challenger Dodg 370
1470 A/SA Adam Keir '70 Chevy Nova GM 402
1656 AA/SA Kenneth Miele '67 Shelby Ford 428
1960 AA/SA Edward Alessi Jr '69 Camaro Chev 427
1990 AA/SA David Barton '09 Coronet Dodg 426
1152 B/S Edward Bednaz '69 Nova Chev 396
1441 B/S Richard Adkins Jr '67 Shelby Ford 428
1518 B/S Bob Broadbent '69 Camaro Chev 396
3969 B/S Joseph Martens '69 Camaro Chev 396
71 B/SA Brian McClanahan '02 Pontiac Pont 346
187 B/SA Bob Moran Jr '69 Camaro Chev 396
396 B/SA Mike Fuller '69 Camaro Chev 396
1002 B/SA Jeffrey Bardekoff '64 Fury Plym 426
1013 B/SA David Ficacci '69 Camaro Chev 396
1020 B/SA Francois Periard '68 Road Runner Plym 426
1041 B/SA Steve Welker '69 Camaro Chev 396
1352 B/SA Bill Hawk '67 Shelby Ford 428
1406 B/SA Matt Rover '71 Challenger Dodg 440
1570 B/SA Frank Bialas '70 GTX Plym 440
1778 B/SA Joseph Santangelo II '95 Camaro Chev 350
1840 B/SA Couturier Serge '64 Dodge Dodg 426
2923 B/SA Gregory Rowe '95 Firebird Pont 350
1904 BF/S Dennis Chapman '88 Dodge Dodg 135
1056 C/S Todd Bednaz '68 Camaro Chev 396
22 C/SA Mickey Whaley '69 Camaro Chev 350
1150 C/SA Russell Linke '96 Camaro Chev 350
123A C/SA Billy Kirpens Jr '69 Barracuda Plym 440
1883 C/SA Eric Merryfield '09 Challenger Dodg 345
1710 D/S Jerry Mac Neish '67 Camaro Chev 302
2 D/SA Anthony Fetch '68 Chevrolet Chev 396
14 D/SA Matthew Welker '68 Camaro Chev 396
1129 D/SA Victor Guilmino III '71 Mustang Ford 429
1262 D/SA Ken Robinson '67 Camaro Chev 396
1043 E/S Doc Horn '67 1973 Plym 440
1165 E/S Dean Cook '72 Ford Ford 351
1255 E/SA Maurice Bivins Jr '71 Plymouth Plym 340
1348 E/SA Mike Farrell '71 Challenger Dodg 383
1547 E/SA Jack Matyas '04 Pontiac Pont 346
1728 E/SA Ralph Kershner Jr '71 Plymouth Plym 340
1018 F/S Adam Strang '68 Firebird Pont 400
1049 F/SA Ron Infantino '69 Camaro Chev 350
1121 F/SA Lenny Williams '71 Buick GS Buic 455
1351 F/SA Tex Miller '71 Mustang Ford 351
1559 F/SA Tom O Loughlin '68 Chevelle Chev 396
1658 F/SA Matt Ticcony '67 Barracuda Plym 383
1578 G/S Jim Roberts '69 Camaro Chev 350
5 G/SA Dustan Lowell '72 Duster Chry 340
1040 G/SA Stan Giermanski '68 Camaro Chev 327
1109 G/SA John Gray Jr '72 Nova Chev 350
1614 G/SA Barry Parker '74 Corvette Chev 350
1721 G/SA Joe Lisa '70 Chevy Nova Chev 350
1860 G/SA Anthony Curcio '69 Camaro Chev 350
1967 G/SA Jim Marshall '80 Corvette Chev 350
117 H/SA Norm Hall '69 Chevrolet Chev 350
1280 H/SA Charles Veach '84 Camaro Chev 305
1290 H/SA James Perrone '69 Nova Chev 350
1317 H/SA Joe De Marzo '72 Chev II Chev 350
1525 H/SA Daniel Lynch '69 Camaro Chev 350
1584 H/SA Donald Pires '72 Nova Chev 350
1617 H/SA Gary Parker '75 Camaro Chev 350
15 I/SA Katie Sepanek '72 Chevelle Chev 350
1168 J/S Dean Cook II '95 Ford Ford 302
1616 J/S Sam Murray '72 Cutlass Olds 350
17 J/SA Frank Ferrucci Jr '90 IROC Chev 350
190 J/SA Frank Aragona Jr '86 Camaro Chev 305
1021 J/SA Eugene Monahan '90 Firebird GM 350
1924 J/SA Bud Rowe '86 Camaro Chev 305
1077 K/SA James English '89 Camaro Chev 305
1116 K/SA Jeanne Linke '85 Camaro Chev 305
2209 K/SA Jorge Carnero '90 Trans Am GM 350
115F L/SA John Fedeli Jr '76 Oldsmobile Olds 455
1424 M/SA Joe Mocci '69 Camaro Chev 350
144 O/SA Bob Bender '69 Kingswood Chev 350
1222 P/S Joe Cokinos '96 S-10 Chev 262
1945 T/SA Ed Fernandez '77 Gremlin AMC 258

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by jmcarter

Here's the Reading entry list sorted by class...people may moan and groan but above all else they want to race....no withdrawals since Indy so apparently if people have a car they can't class differently than an entered 'killer' car they just hope they avoid it during eliminations.

Just saying.....

18 A/S Ralph Porpora '69 Camaro Chev 396
1330 A/S David Casey '69 Corvette Chev 427
3602 A/S Jason Mc Cormack '66 Belvedere Plym 426
1073 A/SA Edward Horensky '68 Shelby Ford 428
117K A/SA Brooks Lee '69 Camaro Chev 396
1199 A/SA Steve Calabro '69 Corvette Chev 427
1242 A/SA Jc James Beattie JR '09 Challenger Dodg 370
1470 A/SA Adam Keir '70 Chevy Nova GM 402
1656 AA/SA Kenneth Miele '67 Shelby Ford 428
1960 AA/SA Edward Alessi Jr '69 Camaro Chev 427
1990 AA/SA David Barton '09 Coronet Dodg 426
1152 B/S Edward Bednaz '69 Nova Chev 396
1441 B/S Richard Adkins Jr '67 Shelby Ford 428
1518 B/S Bob Broadbent '69 Camaro Chev 396
3969 B/S Joseph Martens '69 Camaro Chev 396
71 B/SA Brian McClanahan '02 Pontiac Pont 346
187 B/SA Bob Moran Jr '69 Camaro Chev 396
396 B/SA Mike Fuller '69 Camaro Chev 396
1002 B/SA Jeffrey Bardekoff '64 Fury Plym 426
1013 B/SA David Ficacci '69 Camaro Chev 396
1020 B/SA Francois Periard '68 Road Runner Plym 426
1041 B/SA Steve Welker '69 Camaro Chev 396
1352 B/SA Bill Hawk '67 Shelby Ford 428
1406 B/SA Matt Rover '71 Challenger Dodg 440
1570 B/SA Frank Bialas '70 GTX Plym 440
1778 B/SA Joseph Santangelo II '95 Camaro Chev 350
1840 B/SA Couturier Serge '64 Dodge Dodg 426
2923 B/SA Gregory Rowe '95 Firebird Pont 350
1904 BF/S Dennis Chapman '88 Dodge Dodg 135
1056 C/S Todd Bednaz '68 Camaro Chev 396
22 C/SA Mickey Whaley '69 Camaro Chev 350
1150 C/SA Russell Linke '96 Camaro Chev 350
123A C/SA Billy Kirpens Jr '69 Barracuda Plym 440
1883 C/SA Eric Merryfield '09 Challenger Dodg 345
1710 D/S Jerry Mac Neish '67 Camaro Chev 302
2 D/SA Anthony Fetch '68 Chevrolet Chev 396
14 D/SA Matthew Welker '68 Camaro Chev 396
1129 D/SA Victor Guilmino III '71 Mustang Ford 429
1262 D/SA Ken Robinson '67 Camaro Chev 396
1043 E/S Doc Horn '67 1973 Plym 440
1165 E/S Dean Cook '72 Ford Ford 351
1255 E/SA Maurice Bivins Jr '71 Plymouth Plym 340
1348 E/SA Mike Farrell '71 Challenger Dodg 383
1547 E/SA Jack Matyas '04 Pontiac Pont 346
1728 E/SA Ralph Kershner Jr '71 Plymouth Plym 340
1018 F/S Adam Strang '68 Firebird Pont 400
1049 F/SA Ron Infantino '69 Camaro Chev 350
1121 F/SA Lenny Williams '71 Buick GS Buic 455
1351 F/SA Tex Miller '71 Mustang Ford 351
1559 F/SA Tom O Loughlin '68 Chevelle Chev 396
1658 F/SA Matt Ticcony '67 Barracuda Plym 383
1578 G/S Jim Roberts '69 Camaro Chev 350
5 G/SA Dustan Lowell '72 Duster Chry 340
1040 G/SA Stan Giermanski '68 Camaro Chev 327
1109 G/SA John Gray Jr '72 Nova Chev 350
1614 G/SA Barry Parker '74 Corvette Chev 350
1721 G/SA Joe Lisa '70 Chevy Nova Chev 350
1860 G/SA Anthony Curcio '69 Camaro Chev 350
1967 G/SA Jim Marshall '80 Corvette Chev 350
117 H/SA Norm Hall '69 Chevrolet Chev 350
1280 H/SA Charles Veach '84 Camaro Chev 305
1290 H/SA James Perrone '69 Nova Chev 350
1317 H/SA Joe De Marzo '72 Chev II Chev 350
1525 H/SA Daniel Lynch '69 Camaro Chev 350
1584 H/SA Donald Pires '72 Nova Chev 350
1617 H/SA Gary Parker '75 Camaro Chev 350
15 I/SA Katie Sepanek '72 Chevelle Chev 350
1168 J/S Dean Cook II '95 Ford Ford 302
1616 J/S Sam Murray '72 Cutlass Olds 350
17 J/SA Frank Ferrucci Jr '90 IROC Chev 350
190 J/SA Frank Aragona Jr '86 Camaro Chev 305
1021 J/SA Eugene Monahan '90 Firebird GM 350
1924 J/SA Bud Rowe '86 Camaro Chev 305
1077 K/SA James English '89 Camaro Chev 305
1116 K/SA Jeanne Linke '85 Camaro Chev 305
2209 K/SA Jorge Carnero '90 Trans Am GM 350
115F L/SA John Fedeli Jr '76 Oldsmobile Olds 455
1424 M/SA Joe Mocci '69 Camaro Chev 350
144 O/SA Bob Bender '69 Kingswood Chev 350
1222 P/S Joe Cokinos '96 S-10 Chev 262
1945 T/SA Ed Fernandez '77 Gremlin AMC 258

Id say that 99% of these guys are racing at the Keystones because 1) the race is in thier back yard. 2) Maple Grove is a nice nice race track 3) they have already entered as per NHRA rules ahead of time 4) Its good practice for a real race like the Dutch Classic (no pro junk) 5) The race is less of a pain in the ***** than running over a week at Indy 5) they are already here from Calif. from racing at Indy so why not. 6)they might as well wear out thier stuff before the sky falls.....lol. I see several names on the list who dont/wont travel far from thier drive ways. If it wasnt for the Keysyones they would probably not race a National event all year. Not many DPs or Blown Mustangs entered either.

[Alan Roehrich]

[QUOTE=Jim Kaekel;208960]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

>> 80% of you bitching don't even race at INDY or with NHRA.

Actually Michael, most of the people posting here do race NHRA or have raced at the US Nationals. I ran it in '96, '97 and '98. Unfortunately, I gave up after I couldn't make the field the last two years.
IHRA is an alternative for some, that I have personally supported and participated in myself, but it appears that they are on the downturn due to the economy and the Evan Knoll/Torco fiasco. They put too many eggs in Evan's basket and are now paying for it dearly.

It was not Michael who made that claim, it was Charley Downing. Michael would never have been so insolent as to have made such a claim, especially without having any evidence to back it up.