A/SA First in the 9.80's

[Alan Roehrich]

Clown?

So, you want to resort to name calling. Class act. Congratulations on already losing the argument.

I'm not driving right now, I'm concentrating on someone else's program, I'll worry about another car for myself when I'm satisfied with his program.

I raced Walther when I drove that car, I happen to know the guy. And Donnie Beeler, too. The car belonged to the guy I crew chief for, he was nice enough to let me drive 3-4 races before he sold it. I don't think Walther is going to be able to help me too much with our 427/425 program. Probably won't be able to help me much with our other big block program either.

Care to open your mouth about more things you don't know too much about?

I've never heard of you either, I guess you just aren't quite as great as you think you are.

[Ken Miele]

Not that it means much, but the 2010 CJ 5.4 for Stock is rated at 435 not 425. I feel your pain Dave, but I have to agree with Mike.

I have been racing along time. When I figured out my combo and was starting to run with the fast guys in the mid to late 90's, it only lasted for a year or so. The 396 guys found something and were walking away from me like I was standing still. I had to deal with it like I have to deal with the new CJ's and DP's.

I think there is more creditability to this thread with racers that have actually had to run these cars. My race was not as crucial as Dave's, mine was in class. Dave was in the four round, so I do understand were he is coming from, but me and Dave are on opposite sides of this debate.

I love the new cars in stock, even though it makes my car less competitive. I think its good for the Drag Racing, I could not imagine racing in the 1960's and having to drive a stocker that was 40 years old.

I'm happy I have a place to race my old relict. who knows NHRA may relax the rules some day and let the old cars run new engines. I know the purist would hate it, but a least we would run with the new cars.

Mike, be prepared to take a lot of heat on this one. Class Racer members can be..... lets just say tough on opposites views, especially this one.

Alan, Mike Mans is a very well know racer with a very fast SS/CS car. Although I would not have chosen those words, I think he may be a little frustrated with your view on this subject. I'm sure he can speak for himself, but I do agree name calling is not the best way to get a point across.

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

I hope you guys don't think I'm defending the horsepower factoring system, because we all know it has it's flaws. They do USUALLY get ironed out over time, but yes they are present and probably will be for the foreseeable future.

Dave, I'm not saying your combination is bad - but it's easy to see on paper that the new Cobra Jets and Drag Paks are better. I would assume if you look at it from an outsider's view you would say the same am i right? The largest difference is yes, these two auto makers are stepping up and putting their efforts back into drag racing - which desperately needs it. I feel for you guys with the old muscle cars, I really do - they're a great piece of auto history. And I am sure that you guys work hard and spend plenty of money on your car, it's fast - it shows. Does it suck? Yes, and I do know the feeling. We've raced in other classes where we've had competition with these weak factored combinations. No matter how you slice it, it won't change quick enough to make you the fastest guy around again any time soon. This is the same stuff in Stock and Super Stock. We now have Rock Haas with his bad to the bone Cobra Jet that just went 8.97 in SS/DA! But you know, Brian Oakes continues to come right back and go faster yet with his old '69 technology.

The point is this, you're combination isn't bad, your car isn't slow, you don't sit around and wish it to be faster - these new cars are just plain built and manufactured with better technology and NHRA will probably be slow to put the power to where it should be at. Heck, you (and I) are still using old carburetors which aren't even used on leave blowers now days - and these new cars have throttle bodies the size of my waist letting all the air in!

Due point has to be made for the 2010 CJ's in that these motors are different from their 2008 counterparts and that is why they have the 425 rating again. I'm sure it is under-factored, but hopefully for you one of these guys will go out and go 1.25 under and help the cause in a quicker way.

There is one point that I don't think many people in the Stock or even Super Stock community realize on these factory race cars right now. It's not like these are a bunch of bone stock motors with a lot of room for improvement. The Ford motors are assembled in a special engine development area by only two guys. These motors have been refined before they were ever released and there really is hardly any room for improvement. And the fast Drag Pak cars including Irvin Johns and many others to come have horsepower from Jeff Taylor. Now you tell me - you have a guy with all of the latest Comp and Pro Stock technology applied to a stock eliminator motor how could these not be fast?

To respond to your statement if BS and CS were combined, yes that would definitely hurt our program and I would obviously be pissed. But as we've done before - we would have to start off in a new direction. If I were in your shoes I would just get out of A and AA and let those guys beat each other up and be the bad guy in B/SA? What's wrong with that? If there is an advantage to be had, why not take it? If these guys are entering AA and A, why show up in their class and give them an immediate advantage? Let them go out, race each other heads up and go to fast amongst themselves and then hop back in when its manageable?

And to this Alan Roehrich clown, who the heck are you? I've looked over qualifying sheets from the last several years and you are on 1 (Bristol '08)? You asked me for ideas on how to improve your engine program, I would start by actually racing and learning. Or, better yet - call Dave Walther. He has a '69 G/S that went -1.31 in Reynolds last year - looks like he my have figured out some of the stuff you're still scratching yourself trying to learn.

Michael, I guess it would be all right with you if Ford and Chrysler cars got to run on 9.5 wight break instead of a 10.5 in SS/CS and you had to run 300lbs. heavier. Just wondered.

[Irv Johns]

Due point has to be made for the 2010 CJ's in that these motors are different from their 2008 counterparts and that is why they have the 425 rating again. I'm sure it is under-factored, but hopefully for you one of these guys will go out and go 1.25 under and help the cause in a quicker way.




Greg, the new Cobra Jets are 435 HP ,not that that helps much.LOL