Yet another bogu horsepower factor

[Jim Wahl]

Somehow I think we got a little off base here. It is not Jeff's fault, or Chrysler's fault, or Ford's fault that the NHRA has totally thrown out the rule book and allowed these Mustangs and Challengers into Stock. All of you know that if you were able to, you would build or have one built and go racing. Do I look forward to seeing Jeff in the other lane? NO! In fact I hope he will let us H/SA guys know when and where he will be running that beautiful mechanical work of art! This all comes down to the fact that NHRA has broken their own written rules and put these cars into Stock while giving them an indefensible HP rating. Hell, if they want to rate that 360 combo at 275hp then put my 360 back at 175hp! It makes just as much sense. I think maybe Jeff was sort of thumbing his nose at the NHRA when he let it all out on Thursday at the CajunNats and ran 10.50 @ 127. -1.65 under the new index! -1.95 under the old one! Jim

I guess since these engines use full aluminum roller rocker arms it must be ok for all SB Mopars to use them now?


."Ron has a good point If these new cars fit into CF/S or U/SA, would the choir be singing as loud?"

The answer to that one is very much a yes! I received everything but death threats when I qualified #1 many times with both the Cadillac and the Turbo Dodge! What nobody remembers that? And remember Mike Senia's Cadillac in T/SA and U/SA? We were driving Cadillac's before Cadillac's were cool!


.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Forget all the nonsense Mustangs, Challengers, etc. If you want to be the bad boy in the country get a Cadillac. It may not go into the eights, but it will go further under than anyone else.

Now that some new cars can obliterate the rest of the field everyone is crying and bickering amongst themselves. I totally understand the situation as I have been in it more times than not for over twenty years.

The thing is anyone who wants to race Stock only has to look in the Classification Guide and pick the combo that they want. How fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to spend? Some combos are soft and some are not, but you do have a choice.

Some people want to run these new Fords with say unfair HP ratings. These individuals know that they are just scratching the surface of their true potential. Same goes with the Mopar clan. The bowtie people have had an advantage in the past, but it only has taken several years to realign them with the HP ratings. The sad thing is that these newer cars will eventually be corrected but the other sportsman racers will have left the sport due to frustration.

In the true form of competition we need all the new cars we can get. It will keep the sport alive. We need the older cars as they are a real representation of the sport and is the greatest car show as well. And believe it or not we really need the imports if we are going to draw in a new generation. It all still comes down to HP ratings whether new, old, domestic or foriegn.

The manufacturers know how to "play the new game" with HP ratings. Remember that well. The technical staffs and crews can see the descrepecies in HP ratings as well. The regular racer can see the differences. Everyone knows what is going on. Even the NHRA people in the Competition Department know the situation. We have representatives and comitties but it does not help. If you want to reach the individuals who are casting a blind eye to this and are the ones responsible for changes then look no further that the five members of the Competition Committee. They are the ones who are running this HP game.
Get ahold of them and you have the culprits. Good luck.

Now leave each other alone and go after this Committee.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA no further questions.

Good post.

I also wonder if given the assumption that GM had offered the Camaro or Corvette with the SC engine package, and NHRA put the combination in the books, and the CJ's and DP's were not available, if the controversy would be the same?

[dwydendorf]

Everyone is complaining about the low horsepower factors but other than bashing NHRA no one seems to have a solution to the AHFS which is flawed, so here goes. Instead of giving a certain percentage of horsepower, how about every six months if you trigger the one second under, you automatically move up one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. That way no one has to add more weight, and the factors will get evened out faster. Now unless you can run an existing class, your car is factored into Super Stock if you don't make the stock weight break. Also if the class average is less than .5 under the index and no car with the same combo went more than .7 under you would automatically move down one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. This would even the factors much faster and get things where they should be. Now let the flaming begin.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

Everyone is complaining about the low horsepower factors but other than bashing NHRA no one seems to have a solution to the AHFS which is flawed, so here goes. Instead of giving a certain percentage of horsepower, how about every six months if you trigger the one second under, you automatically move up one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. That way no one has to add more weight, and the factors will get evened out faster. Now unless you can run an existing class, your car is factored into Super Stock if you don't make the stock weight break. Also if the class average is less than .5 under the index and no car with the same combo went more than .7 under you would automatically move down one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. This would even the factors much faster and get things where they should be. Now let the flaming begin.

Great Idea! Now everybody will just be dumping at the 330!

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

Forget all the nonsense Mustangs, Challengers, etc. If you want to be the bad boy in the country get a Cadillac. It may not go into the eights, but it will go further under than anyone else.

Now that some new cars can obliterate the rest of the field everyone is crying and bickering amongst themselves. I totally understand the situation as I have been in it more times than not for over twenty years.

The thing is anyone who wants to race Stock only has to look in the Classification Guide and pick the combo that they want. How fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to spend? Some combos are soft and some are not, but you do have a choice.

Some people want to run these new Fords with say unfair HP ratings. These individuals know that they are just scratching the surface of their true potential. Same goes with the Mopar clan. The bowtie people have had an advantage in the past, but it only has taken several years to realign them with the HP ratings. The sad thing is that these newer cars will eventually be corrected but the other sportsman racers will have left the sport due to frustration.

In the true form of competition we need all the new cars we can get. It will keep the sport alive. We need the older cars as they are a real representation of the sport and is the greatest car show as well. And believe it or not we really need the imports if we are going to draw in a new generation. It all still comes down to HP ratings whether new, old, domestic or foriegn.

The manufacturers know how to "play the new game" with HP ratings. Remember that well. The technical staffs and crews can see the descrepecies in HP ratings as well. The regular racer can see the differences. Everyone knows what is going on. Even the NHRA people in the Competition Department know the situation. We have representatives and comitties but it does not help. If you want to reach the individuals who are casting a blind eye to this and are the ones responsible for changes then look no further that the five members of the Competition Committee. They are the ones who are running this HP game.
Get ahold of them and you have the culprits. Good luck.

Now leave each other alone and go after this Committee.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA no further questions.

Exactly!

It is not my fault if I play by the rules and go faster than you. A lot of people like to make this some type of personal problem but the problem lays with the rule book. The cars are legal (at this point) for stock and that is that.

If all the people that made comments on this topic wrote letters to the NHRA stating that these cars belong in SS not Stock maybe they would listen and at least start thinking about doing something about the problem, we all know they aren't going to act quickly but at least it's a start.

I'm one of the people that can legitimately bitch about these cars because they made my unfinished Max Wedge Plymouth uncompetitive before the car is finished but rules are rules until they are changed.

JimR

[X-TECH MAN]

The compitition committiee is like our Politicians......They dont listen and they dont care.

[Myron Piatek]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Hold on a sec, let me check my wallet... Hm. Somehow, it appears that this "opportunity" isn't available to me. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd have one of each. That still wouldn't make them factored right or put them in the right class.

Of course it is! You could take out a loan, sell the house, cars, dogs, etc........( Just kidding. )

Ok, so I may not have worded it quite right. But it would not have been a good business move by Chrysler to make them "affordable to everyone". They appear to have planned on building the number of cars they felt they could sell without losing money.

If I read correctly, Jeffs car is one of 3 ordered with the 5.9. The 6.1's haven't been quite as big an issue because the HP seems to be a little bit closer to what it should be and there are other new Challengers and Mustangs to run against. But if Jeff hadn't ordered that 3rd 5.9, someone else could have and nothing changes! Gaining a competitive edge (preferably) under the rules is in the nature of a racer. Unfortunately, some can afford to pay for this edge and others can't. It will likely get worse when the other Mustang combos come out and will cover many more classes, including "H"!

I can understand the frustration of having almost no chance heads-up against a very mis-factored combo. But as it's been pointed out many times, the blame falls on NHRA. Perhaps the manufacturers share some of the blame because it's in their best interest to have their new cars out there! But they are looking at it from a business standpoint. Can you blame them? NHRA has still wandered away from what it was originally designed for. Now it all boils down to money for them.

[Michael Beard]

You've *been* in my house, Myron! *IF* I owned everything I have free and clear, and sold all of it, I *might* be able to get one of those cars. But then I'd need to get a truck & trailer again to get it to the race track.

I'll never own a Hemi car either, but I have made a few passes in one. (Thanks Bob!)

I'm easy, though. I'll drive anything.

[Jim Wahl]

"I'm easy, though. I'll drive anything."

Myron has told me that many times about you Beard! Jim