Clutchless trans

[bkeesee]

I really don't see the big deal allowing clutchless transmissions in Super Stock or Stock for that matter. If the truth be told, I bet at least 80% of the current G Force or Jerico users shift them clutchless anyhow weather they will admit to it or not. I think they sould at least allow them in the modified SS classes. This would allow a lot of the Super Modified Comp racers with sticks to also run SS like a lot of the automatic Super Modified cars do now and I would think this could help with car counts at a lot of races. I would also like to see them do away with the seperate stick and auto classifications and class them both together. The weight deductions for the automatics is another part of this that should be eliminated as todays transmission and converters along with auto shifts and transbrakes they are not slower or at a disadvantage to a stick car. If anything they might even have the performance advantage to all but the best clutch tuners.
Just my thoughts....
Brett

[Stick Racing]

Originally Posted by deuces wild

Jeff having to let the clutch out on time is one reason why most guys want to run a manual car. Having something release the clutch pedal other than your foot doesn't do it for me. I got the email and said no to the clutchless. If you want a clutchless car go run comp eliminator. Ed

Ed,
Great minds think alike. My reply was the same- almost word for word.

Jeff,
If you can get the electro-magnet T/O bearing passed for the guys that can't move their left foot, then I'll lobby to get a photocell to read the tree. That will 'level the playing field' for all the guys that can't cut a light.

I always thought the sport of racing was the challenge of 'driving' the car-not just going along for the ride.

___________________________

Andy Stone 1102 A/S 1112 SS/C

[SuperStockDodge]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

NHRA asked for opinions, I presented mine.
You can drive your car as you see fit. I also
mentioned I would not be installing a clutchless
but it could be an option to others.
But if you read my letter & didn't freeze on one
aspect, you may have noticed some of it
was geared to auto racers being reluctant
to switch to manual trans for a variety of
reasons.
Now maybe the real story is both of you
would rather not see more stick cars and
the increase in competition?

"Opinions Vary" that is what Patrick Swayze said in the movie "Roadhouse" The more stick cars the better!!! Let the slush pump cars have all the "driver aided" BS on their cars. Remember when manual meant manual? At Least i can say I still do. Real Race Cars Have 3 Pedals, always have been-always will be...

[charlie westcott]

I think if they allowed clutchless, some auto guys would switch. I have at least one hemi customer that I know would. One thing that I read on here was that they wont stay in gear when you let off the gas. They stay in high gear (the jericos do at least) because the slider has flats on the coast side instead of ramps. I am in favor of it for a couple reasons, it gets the spike out of the rpm between gears (hard on valves) and it makes the car easier to shift. Its not as easy to pull a hemi out of gear as a GT/E car. I voted yes twice for my dad and I. I havent heard anything yet. The poll closed last friday.
cw

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by bkeesee

I really don't see the big deal allowing clutchless transmissions in Super Stock or Stock for that matter. If the truth be told, I bet at least 80% of the current G Force or Jerico users shift them clutchless anyhow weather they will admit to it or not. I think they sould at least allow them in the modified SS classes. This would allow a lot of the Super Modified Comp racers with sticks to also run SS like a lot of the automatic Super Modified cars do now and I would think this could help with car counts at a lot of races. I would also like to see them do away with the seperate stick and auto classifications and class them both together. The weight deductions for the automatics is another part of this that should be eliminated as todays transmission and converters along with auto shifts and transbrakes they are not slower or at a disadvantage to a stick car. If anything they might even have the performance advantage to all but the best clutch tuners.
Just my thoughts....
Brett

I too would like to see sticks and autos combined. I firmly believe NHRA will make it happen. That's why I'm all for clutchless transmissions and even allowing electro-magnetic clutch releases. I would call that foresight.
If this happens, you macho guys that think your in control of everything are going to sit on the line like dead ducks when your on equal footing with a SS that has a time release activated tranny brake and cuts double O lights at will. What I suggest will make things equal.
Personally, I would love the competition of the fastest of the SS/HA cars (and there are many). Once I get my car back of course...

And FYI guys, I've not had any problems cutting lights or running my dial in the past; with or without the clutch pedal on shifts. Two weeks after hitting the track for the first time with my D/S AMX I attended my first national event. I made it to Sunday's show. And back then I didn't even know you could shift without a clutch!

Nobody has any comments on the spread between auto classes and stick classes?

Charlie Westcotts post was right on. Furthermore, call Rob Youngblood and ask him how many more customers he would have if that spread were not there. Why should a guy get penalized two tenths because he has a stick and everything else is equal? Racers call him and say they would love to have a stick but not with an index penalty and time release gizmos that are allowed with an auto trannies.

And where was this poll? I never saw it.

[Adger Smith]

I'm sitting here letting this cold run it's course. So I crunched a few numbers. Not taking sides, just showing the numbers.
Using the Dec. Nitro Joe's Stats book I took a look at the most populated classes. I know that this is a run count, not a true car count as some cars migrate from class to class and have multiple drivers. So its based on fastest runs.
The AA/SA thru I/SA has a index from 10.90 to 12.60 with a run count of 969 That is a count of AA/SA =65 to I/SA =70
The sick cars fall a little different. with AA/S at only 9. I dropped it and count only A/S to G/S because there are double digit numbers in those classes A/S to G/S = 179 A/S =30 G/S =16 The index in A/S to G/S is 11.25 to 12.20
So that makes 969 for autos and 179 for Sticks that is an 18% ratio
If you take the total stick count, 245 vs the total auto count 1305 you get the same 18% ratio. I think it is interesting that the most populated car counts run the same 18% of overall partipation count in both Stick & Auto
Classes. I think that says there is the same chance of a headsup in the populated Stick classes as the most populated auto classes.
Now it is interesting that the index numbers tighten up to a .95 seconds range in the sticks VS the 1.7 second range for the autos. I think that would show that 2 stick cars, from the most populated classes, would have a 45% chance of running closer to one another (side by side) than the most populated autos. Ah!, but when you compare the actual fastest runs instead of index what is it? A/S fasted listed run = 9.813 G/S fastest listed run =10.888 That is a 1.075 range. The AA/SA fastest run listed = 9.613 and the I/SA = 11.333 for a 1.17 second range. I think that shows that the stick racing is still closer? So I can conclude that sticks racing one another is closer and faster than automatics racing one another.

[S.E. Buchanan]

Adger:

You have way to much time on you hands! Ha

S.E.

[Stewart Way]

Adger
Can you compare the fastest ET for A-G classes and the Average ET? See how the fast sticks and average sticks compare.

[Adger Smith]

When your on drugs, Prescribed.. I might add... for a cold the last thing I need is to be smelling the fumes at my shop and loose a finger in some mill or to a sharp tool !! These keyboards don't have sharp edges.. They might bring out some SHARP old guys like you, S.E... :~)

Thanks for reminding me.. I thought all us older racers were running out of time...

[Adger Smith]

Stewart,
I did everything with pen and paper... That would require some major number crunching that way. {quote Adger
Can you compare the fastest ET for A-G classes and the Average ET? See how the fast sticks and average sticks compare.
Today 02:21 PM } end quote
Joe's Excel program might be able to do that pretty quick or I could just avg the Fastest/Slowest numbers for each class.
I did notice when I was running the numbers that you had to get WAY down the list on the stick cars before falling below the old .50 the index.
That was "excluding altitude runs". Some of them only 1-3 were below the
50 index. (C,F & G have none) Not so on the auto classes. There seems to be more guys going to get hurt, need to pick up, in the auto classes by this .3 reduction, if their not 'bagging.
Is that where you were going?
That might give us the picture your asking about. If not I might work on that a little.