64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis

[bill dedman]

Several things I don't understand, here (maybe I'm not supposed to)...

1. The wheelbase should stay with the chassis, right? I.E., if the car body was from a '64 Plymouth Hemi car that originally had a 1-inch shorter wheelbase (than the rest of the '64 b-body Pilgrims), why would NHRA tech disallow that wheelbase just because another engine will be run in the car (say, a 340?) as a GT car?????? Or, would they?

2. In a GT class car, If you run a non-fresh air engine in a car body that came from the factory with a fresh air scoop (say, a '68 Hemi Barracuda, for instance), wouldn't it be mandatory to close off that fresh air if your engine didn't have a fresh air variant, in which case, you'd just use the only factor listed? Could you just remove the scoop and make a "flat hood" out of it, or, does the scoop have to stay, even though it's closed off at the bottom, and is non-functioning???

3. What is the downside of the "new" rules that allow "old bodies" with newer engines to run GT? People are talking about possibly reverting back to the "old rules", and I don't understand the reason why.

Anybody? Don't we need all the cars we can attract?

Thanks for any information...

[mopar68]

"Maybe it was a change as they were built ??? but the pictures I have show 4 hood pins and complete removal of the hood in the pits and placed on the roof of the cars."

IMO, this does not sound like a factory setup. At least not for Super/Stock. Maybe A/FX? If I were a betting man (and I am), I'd bet that it was a racer modification.

Personally, I've never seen any pix of those cars with a quick release (i.e. hood pins) system installed allowing quick hood removal.

Here are some early pix of those cars at Beeline Dragway in 1964:

http://arizonaracinghistory.com/64winternats.htm

Granted, most if not all of those cars pictured there are Max Wedge cars since (I'm pretty sure) the 426 HEMI was released in April of 1964.*

M68

* Or was it February?

** Yeah, it was February 1964 because Richard Petty won the Daytona 500 with a Hemi under the hood as well as the 2nd and 3rd place finishers.

[mopar68]

Hmmm....Lindamood's '64 car has the hood pins at the rear of hood.

http://www.quartermilestones.com/pho...n2/RMA6401.jpg

I don't believe Roger's car would've ever passed tech if it were not a factory modification.

Now I don't know what to think.

M68

[mopar68]

"Sometime after a build date of February 17, 1964, Manessis took delivery of his Dodge 330 and began to campaign the aluminum-paneled sedan. With its hinged aluminum hood; dual hump aluminum hoodscoop; aluminum fenders; aluminum bumper brackets; and acid-dipped components including the front bumper, doors and decklid, all seemed well."

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...330/index.html

1964 Hemi Plymouth Savoy - The First Satellite Super Commando

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/f...ndo/index.html

M68

[James L Miller]

First, I'd like to know who at IHRA will approve fiberglass replacements for aluminum body panels? I e-mailed IHRA about five years ago and was told it was NOT legal. I wish it was legal, fiberglass nose is what $2k? Aluminum nose, $20k? I'd be happy with just a glass hood and scoop and run steel fenders. They could make the fiberglass need to weigh as much as the aluminum to make things fair.

The steel and aluminum front end rules have changed back and forth over the last several years. For a while, the only legal 1964 Belvedere HT Hemi car was with aluminum (Steel was legal, but had to run at the aluminum weight). Then they added the single 4bbl (Circle Track) combo that had the aluminum front end (steel was legal and had to run at the aluminum weight). Somewhere along here they changed the 250 maximum added weight, so it allowed the crossram Race Hemi to run in something other than SS/B(A). Then NHRA came up the stupid idea that all Race Hemi cars had to have the aluminum to be LEGAL. Steel front end parts were ILLEGAL. Fortunately someone at Chrysler worked with NHRA to allow steel to be LEGAL again.

The current Classification Guide lists the following notes for MW and Hemi cars in 1964-5:

426 Race Hemi cars with 2 carbs were available from factory with either steel or aluminum components (fenders, hood & scoop) depending on plant supply at the time motor installed in car.

426 Race Hemi cars with 1 carb were available from factory with steel components (fenders & hood) with the addition of steel or aluminum hood scoop..

426 Wedge Al component car required to have aluminum hood with hood scoop, & both aluminum front fenders to be classified as aluminum component car

I doubt that Chrysler originally built the cars with all thread and wing nuts to hold the hoods on, but I've seen the photos of cars with them from "back-in-the-day".

[Don Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

How does it work going the other way?? Like a 69 Vette body W/L-88 fresh air hood and a '66 327 engine that was not equipped with fresh air... would that be allowed in GT classes? It seems to me like the precedent is already set. It has already been done/allowed with the 69 Camaro running cowl induction hoods with non fresh air engine combos in Stock, SS and SS/GT. Is a Mopar and Fomoco "forward facing scoop" really a different application than some of the cowl or rear facing fresh air systems from other MFG's? It's all about cool clean air, no matter how you get it.
The way I read the rule book using a fresh air body with a non fresh air engine should be allowed.
Because:
1. When you pick a body for the GT class It says nothing in the rules about limiting the bodies to non fresh air applications.
2. When you pick an engine. It clearly says under engine:1 V-8 only; must be same make as body.Year optional. Engine must be listed in both the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide and NHRA Blueprint Bulletins. Again it says nothing about limiting it to non Fresh Air engines

GT classes Mix combinations of bodies and engines. If it is allowed one way, it should be allowed going the other way. .

I really don't see that there is a problem with any "Body Package" that was produced by a MFG running any "Engine Combination" that was produced by the same MFG. as long as they are listed in the applicable NHRA guides.
Maybe we should go back as far as the inception of the GT Classes to see the "intent". Which I thought was to allow the mixing of SS engine combos and body combinations that weren't available with each other. Our resident GT historian Don Kennedy might be able to shine a little more light on the reason for GT Classes.

If I recall when I submitted the rules for the GT classes.the only change is the engine .now if the body came with a scoop then that was allowed , no body parts could not be moved from one car the old one ,to the new body now there are hoods that were made for special applications to be put on a certain body for racing as an example My Sunfire. Pontiac had a private company make hoods for road racing .then .the road racing endeavor did not materialize . Now Pontiac is no longer in business . There is a lot of examples like this by the manufacturers I have a letter saying the Hood was made for Pontiac from the main Pontiac executive that was involved with the racing

[Tom P]

Reading through all ten pages here... Interesting stuff about the aluminum front end cars. And i share Tony DePillo's opinion of Leonard Long. I got the grand tour of his shop when i showed up off the street on the way to Beaver Springs. What a great guy.

Is the Dave Wren car the one Mike Booker was running in SS/BA for many years?

[Terry Cain]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

How does it work going the other way?? Like a 69 Vette body W/L-88 fresh air hood and a '66 327 engine that was not equipped with fresh air... would that be allowed in GT classes? It seems to me like the precedent is already set. It has already been done/allowed with the 69 Camaro running cowl induction hoods with non fresh air engine combos in Stock, SS and SS/GT. Is a Mopar and Fomoco "forward facing scoop" really a different application than some of the cowl or rear facing fresh air systems from other MFG's? It's all about cool clean air, no matter how you get it.
The way I read the rule book using a fresh air body with a non fresh air engine should be allowed.
Because:
1. When you pick a body for the GT class It says nothing in the rules about limiting the bodies to non fresh air applications.
2. When you pick an engine. It clearly says under engine:1 V-8 only; must be same make as body.Year optional. Engine must be listed in both the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide and NHRA Blueprint Bulletins. Again it says nothing about limiting it to non Fresh Air engines

GT classes Mix combinations of bodies and engines. If it is allowed one way, it should be allowed going the other way. .

I really don't see that there is a problem with any "Body Package" that was produced by a MFG running any "Engine Combination" that was produced by the same MFG. as long as they are listed in the applicable NHRA guides.
Maybe we should go back as far as the inception of the GT Classes to see the "intent". Which I thought was to allow the mixing of SS engine combos and body combinations that weren't available with each other. Our resident GT historian Don Kennedy might be able to shine a little more light on the reason for GT Classes.

So, I'm reading this to mean I can run my 69 Corvette L-88 car with the fresh air hood and a 283?

[PONTIAC'S REVENGE]

Originally Posted by Stewart Way

Dave
The rulebook does not allow the addition of scoops on a GT car. The GT section 9B says "The requirements and specifications for GT classes are the same as those for Super Stock classes - Section 9A - with the following exceptions:" and there are no exceptions for hoodscoops in the GT section 9B. There is, however, a phrase in SS Section 9A "Hood openings and/or hood scoops other than original equipment prohibited.". It would appear that those two statements eliminate the ability to add fresh air to a non fresh air car. Nothing I see keeps someone from running the fresh air engine in a non fresh air car , just no fresh air.

Yes but what about a fresh air body that was only built fresh air? Then install a non freshair engine! Do You dam it up hood scoop with non factory pieces or put a 6 cylinder hood on it? All 70 Pontiac TAs were fresh air all 2005 GrandAms were fresh air!
That's not Super Stock, cars need to keep original pieces. Right? Im getting busted for running all orginal pieces bcuz engine claimed didn't have fresh air and the Car is exclusively fresh air!