M.g.

[bill dedman]

BSA said: "I think this post shows that people with nothing better to do will just keep on asking for changes."


>>>This hasn't changed for FORTY-SIX YEARS.... and all the time, the first car to leave has been enduring a set of circumstances that the second car to leave does not; if the car in the other lane redlights first,the second car never has to face the jeopardy of a possible red light.... it has a free ride to the next round, no matter WHAT kind of a light it would have had.

>>>That's not a level playing field by any stretch of the imagination. If it can be changed, why shouldn't it?
Neither driver will notice the difference until AFTER both cars have left the line and a red light comes on in the lane that had the worse one. This "Change" won't affect either driver's program until it's evident that it won't matter; the race will be over as soon as he finds out there was an infraction.



BSA said, "it has changed to much and to fast the last ten years."

>>>That is your opinion; I tend to agree with that, but this change willl require NOTHING from any driver, as far as "adjusting" his program.... He'll be totally unaware of it unless he red lights worse than the car in the other lane, and only then, AFTER both have left the line. Neither car's red light will show until after BOTH cars have launched.



BSA said, "the first red light rule has cons and pro's...It will not change anything in the end...but just be another "Change"


>>>With a double red light system, If my car is in a faster class than yours, and you red light -.003 and I red light -.004, you just won that race, BUT, the way it is now, ~I~ would have won it because my "worse" red light would not have counted because.... yours was first. I'd go to the next round, not you, even though my infraction was worse than yours.

>>>So, yes, it will change things; it will stop that kind of nonsense.




BSA said, ".dual redlights where the first car did not drag the other car along isn't that many..


>>>That is true.... this new double red light rule won't come into play very often at all.




BSA said, "and the cases were the slower cars in that scenario is the winner is even fewer...


>>>That is probably true, too....



BSA said, "just a another way for a "redlight loser" to get back in the race as i see it."



>>>Using the double red light system, if the other (second to leave) car red lights WORSE (an impossibility, now) then the first car is NOT a "red light loser" and doesn't need to "get back into the race" since he was never out of it. He won that round. Worse red light loses.




BSA said, "DONT REDLIGHT."


>>>Oh yes..... good advice; right up there with "WIN THE RACE!!!"
>>>Nothing to it....
>>>Like the lady said; "It's just BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, GO! What's the problem???" LOL!




BSA said, "Put the pressure on the other guy...if you have problems with redlights you wont win anything anyway...so change that manner instead![/QUOTE]

>>>But, you'll win more if the system gives HIM his chance to redlight, too.... irrefutable logic!!! LOL!

[bigshow2966]

When I started racing at US 30 if both cars redlit or broke out, both lost. If both cars went red or broke out in the finals, both got second place money. Probably saved US 30 a bunch of money.

Of course winning paid $35 and second paid $15.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

I agree with Robert about one thing. It all depends on how you're looking at the tree. That's why I don't stay up nights worrying about redlighting first.
On the other hand , I don't see any reason to not fix it, in this day and age.
Oh yes I do . It might help out a slower car once in a while. Just look at who's usually against this change.

"I need wheelie bars. I can't leave hard enough on the last bulb without them"
OK, no problem . Here ya' go. You slower cars can have them too.

"I don't like that deep staging thing. It might give a slower leaving car some flexibility in leaving on the last bulb"
Ok, let's take a poll. Guess what? There's more fast cars around now. Look who wins? Imagine that.

"I can't win class at Indy with my new A-B-C fi car. Help me out. Change that 40 year old rule."

OK, no problem. Let's take a poll. Guess what ? There's more class losers with 10 second cars nowadays . Look who wins this one?

to be continued...

Amen Mark...

[John Kelley]

Originally Posted by Robert Pare Racing

John, here's an idea..drive your own car and don't red light. If you can cut a bulb you don't need to worry about it. Think of having a slow car as leaving on a clean tree.

Right.....there's no reason for a level playing field.....:-(

[bill dedman]

Oh and John, one more thing:

DON'T RED LIGHT!!!!!

[Bunkster]

Originally Posted by Robert Pare Racing

.... Think of having a slow car as leaving on a clean tree.

If a “clean tree” is defined as the slower car’s driver seeing only their own side blink down, then that would apply to the faster car too: Any handicap more than 1.5 seconds will present both drivers with this “clean tree”.

As well, any handicap less than 1.5 seconds and no one gets this “clean tree”.

NHRA, end this dinosaur-inequity now. Don’t take a poll. Simply install the software and be done with it.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Mark -- if you remember when we started doing this it was a good thing to have a slow car -- what changed?

Jack,

I'm not sure what all would be in Marks book (answering your question), but I think I know one or two things that've changed when you guys started doing this level of racing:

1. The aftermarket made a lot more products for slower cars to use in Stock/Super Stock than they do now---remember when Hooker Headers produced headers for Chevy FWD V6's? Ask Linda Sherman about them since she had them on her Citation, back in the '90's before she sold the car to Randy Hyman.

2. We don't have the luxury of a variety of slick sizes like the faster class cars do as well, and I don't know of any radial slicks being made that are clearance legal for Stock that fwd's or cars such as Lane Weber's "Skyhawk" can use...do you? If so please tell me who makes them, so I can shop for them...

3. Even the big three's high-performance catalogs had products that would be legal for slower rollers to use in our classes back then..(i.e. the Mopar stuff for the 2.2's, and parts for the GM 90 & 60 degree V6's, and their 2.0 4cyl engines--after all, the Archer brothers were terrors in I.M.S.A. racing back in the 80's with their Cavaliers with those engines...).

[Jack Matyas]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

Jack,

I'm not sure what all would be in Marks book (answering your question), but I think I know one or two things that've changed when you guys started doing this level of racing:

1. The aftermarket made a lot more products for slower cars to use in Stock/Super Stock than they do now---remember when Hooker Headers produced headers for Chevy FWD V6's? Ask Linda Sherman about them since she had them on her Citation, back in the '90's before she sold the car to Randy Hyman.

2. We don't have the luxury of a variety of slick sizes like the faster class cars do as well, and I don't know of any radial slicks being made that are clearance legal for Stock that fwd's or cars such as Lane Weber's "Skyhawk" can use...do you? If so please tell me who makes them, so I can shop for them...

3. Even the big three's high-performance catalogs had products that would be legal for slower rollers to use in our classes back then..(i.e. the Mopar stuff for the 2.2's, and parts for the GM 90 & 60 degree V6's, and their 2.0 4cyl engines--after all, the Archer brothers were terrors in I.M.S.A. racing back in the 80's with their Cavaliers with those engines...).

Gary -- I feel your pain but the facts remain -- we have choices to make and one of them is to pick a class where you can do well -- when alot of us started doing this we didn't buy parts from a catalogue-- we made them .As for the "Big 3 " being involved -- well thats over -- there bankrupt and its doubtful they'll be back( maybe with the exception of Ford Motor Co.) -- its not the Eighties anymore .

[bill dedman]

Eddie Rezak said, "Why not insert a blue bulb, in between the last yellow, and the green? About 1-3 seconds or so, after the second car has left, and one or both foul, let the computer turn on the appropriate green or red bulbs, and declare the winner! "

The winner will already have been declared instantly, AFTER the second car to leave, launches: a big, red, light will be glowing in one lane of the other, but not until after the second car to leave has left the line.
That is, assuming one, or both of the cars went "red."

I don't see the advantage in complicating this beyond that. It will operate just as it always has, except the worse red light will determine the winner and it will not come on until both cars have left the line.

Assuming a situation wherein BOTH cars red light, no red light would show until AFTER both cars have left rhe line... so there are NO DISTRACTIONS FOR EITHER DRIVER...


Once they've had their red lights compared by the computer (takes only a a microsecond) the red will then come on in whichever lane had the worse infraction and the win light willl show on the opposite scoreboard.

I can't see how adding another, different-colored (blue?) light would improve this very simple situation.

Bill

[Harry 6674]

All this seems to be how NHRA does it, does IHRA have a better system or are they the same?