Factory experimental - Page 2

junior barns · 01-21-2009, 03:58 PM

I have to agree with Bruce. I have only been going to a couple of races a year recently so I have'nt been worried about how fast I needed to go. My plans were to step up my program and get back into the lions den with the upper class guys (AA, A/SA ) and even the top stock class. Now; I believe I will save my money and watch to see what happens with these cars. Separate class is the only fair thing to do until these cars have shown what their true potential is!

I dont like bringing a knife to a gun fight!

ps I still like the cars and want to see them run!

bill dedman · 01-21-2009, 04:39 PM

It looks to me like the ONLY problem with this whole MESS is: "Are these engines correctly "factored" by NHRA?", so that there's not another debacle that takes YEARS for the AHFS to resolve, like it did with the LS-1's.

That was an inexcusable, totally preventable, (and deliberate, I think), faux pas on NHRA's part, and could (and probably will) happen again with these Cobra Jets. It's the one thing that NHRA can "do" for these manufacturers when they (NHRA) want to give them a pat on the back. Unfortunately, it invariably comes at great expense to the rank-and-file....

Having said that, and with that scenario fresh in mind, I don't understand why anyone would think it necessary to create a new class ("F/X") for these cars when they will fit so very well in existing Super Stock classes.

That's what they did in '68 with the then-new Cobra Jets, when they won there... Only the 'cammers were put into F/X (oh, and Bil Hoeffer's Weber-carbed 289.)

I think that the only real problem that these cars are going to create will come about if they're severely under-factored, (DUH....) but of course, that would also be a problem if they were put into Super Stock, too. But, the type of performances that Bruce has alleged they can produce wouldn't be so overtly out-of-line in Super Stock, as they are almost guaranteed to be in Stock.

If they are correctly "factored" (and I have my doubts), then they should be fine in Stock; if not, make them Super Stockers; there are lots of cars in that Eliminator that will not be intimidated by the blowers and 4-valve technology they possess. They are, in fact, small motors, after all... just GOOD ones!

The problem is, of course, getting it right the first time... you don't want to have to move a car out of one Eliminator, into another, after it's originally been classified. That would be unprecented, and undoubtedly wouldn't happen. The Cobra Jets (and their competitiors) are going to have to live with wherever they are put, initially, it would seem. Get it right, NHRA!

I'm delighted to see both them and the Dodges in the fray. I think it's a wonderful opportunity to give Sportsman racing some badly needed media exposure; I just hope it doesn't come at the expense of long-established racers' programs that have been many years and many dollars in the making.

We'll know a lot more in about two week....

Thanks for listening.

Jack Matyas · 01-21-2009, 04:03 PM

Bruce -- First of all I hope you don't think this is a personal attack on you . Second -- what if I'm wrong -- no shucks about it -- it always catches up -- its never too late to fix a problem .
As for the Factory Experimental class -- I'm sure you understand that has no chance whatsoever in becoming a class . No , I'm not being NHRA stubborn -- just realistic .

As for disecting bsa633's post my point was and still is that we should stick to real facts --not maybe's .And I surely believe he is entitled to his opinion -- whatever that may be .

George Wright · 01-21-2009, 04:35 PM

Ken Haase · 01-21-2009, 03:39 PM

The named racers who are going to be at Pomona are all very experienced, at least the one's whose names are familiar to me, anyway. I seriously doubt they're gonna show their arses first time out. (maybe a little butt-crack) Or, would they?

Bruce Noland · 01-21-2009, 03:43 PM

Ken,
100% agreed. I predicted Indy will be the true arrival date.

John Quinn · 01-21-2009, 04:03 PM

Where is FX in the rule book? This sounds like grade school, a lot of crying before anybody is hurt.

John Lang · 01-21-2009, 04:05 PM

Just my opinion, but the "sky is not falling". Lets just wait and see how fast they really are! As somebody said, they still have got to hook'em and drive'em, at the finish line ! Two more weeks , Time will tell, John Lang

Floyd Staggs · 01-21-2009, 04:09 PM

There were 2 of them at Fontana Jan. 2nd and 3rd. John Calvert had one and I don't know who was driving the other. Neither one of them could hook up in first or second. That might have been before they went to Mandellas.

junior barns · 01-21-2009, 04:12 PM

And still went 10.20's

01-21-2009, 03:58 PM	#1
junior barns Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 541 Likes: 11 Liked 20 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Factory experimental I have to agree with Bruce. I have only been going to a couple of races a year recently so I have'nt been worried about how fast I needed to go. My plans were to step up my program and get back into the lions den with the upper class guys (AA, A/SA ) and even the top stock class. Now; I believe I will save my money and watch to see what happens with these cars. Separate class is the only fair thing to do until these cars have shown what their true potential is! I dont like bringing a knife to a gun fight! ps I still like the cars and want to see them run!

01-21-2009, 04:39 PM	#2
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Factory experimental It looks to me like the ONLY problem with this whole MESS is: "Are these engines correctly "factored" by NHRA?", so that there's not another debacle that takes YEARS for the AHFS to resolve, like it did with the LS-1's. That was an inexcusable, totally preventable, (and deliberate, I think), faux pas on NHRA's part, and could (and probably will) happen again with these Cobra Jets. It's the one thing that NHRA can "do" for these manufacturers when they (NHRA) want to give them a pat on the back. Unfortunately, it invariably comes at great expense to the rank-and-file.... Having said that, and with that scenario fresh in mind, I don't understand why anyone would think it necessary to create a new class ("F/X") for these cars when they will fit so very well in existing Super Stock classes. That's what they did in '68 with the then-new Cobra Jets, when they won there... Only the 'cammers were put into F/X (oh, and Bil Hoeffer's Weber-carbed 289.) I think that the only real problem that these cars are going to create will come about if they're severely under-factored, (DUH....) but of course, that would also be a problem if they were put into Super Stock, too. But, the type of performances that Bruce has alleged they can produce wouldn't be so overtly out-of-line in Super Stock, as they are almost guaranteed to be in Stock. If they are correctly "factored" (and I have my doubts), then they should be fine in Stock; if not, make them Super Stockers; there are lots of cars in that Eliminator that will not be intimidated by the blowers and 4-valve technology they possess. They are, in fact, small motors, after all... just GOOD ones! The problem is, of course, getting it right the first time... you don't want to have to move a car out of one Eliminator, into another, after it's originally been classified. That would be unprecented, and undoubtedly wouldn't happen. The Cobra Jets (and their competitiors) are going to have to live with wherever they are put, initially, it would seem. Get it right, NHRA! I'm delighted to see both them and the Dodges in the fray. I think it's a wonderful opportunity to give Sportsman racing some badly needed media exposure; I just hope it doesn't come at the expense of long-established racers' programs that have been many years and many dollars in the making. We'll know a lot more in about two week.... Thanks for listening. __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 01-21-2009 at 05:11 PM.

01-21-2009, 04:03 PM	#3
Jack Matyas Live Reporter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Bethlehem , PA -Christmas City , USA Posts: 4,932 Likes: 411 Liked 2,052 Times in 400 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Bruce -- First of all I hope you don't think this is a personal attack on you . Second -- what if I'm wrong -- no shucks about it -- it always catches up -- its never too late to fix a problem . As for the Factory Experimental class -- I'm sure you understand that has no chance whatsoever in becoming a class . No , I'm not being NHRA stubborn -- just realistic . As for disecting bsa633's post my point was and still is that we should stick to real facts --not maybe's .And I surely believe he is entitled to his opinion -- whatever that may be . __________________ Jack Matyas 1547 FS/C 2015 Camaro COPO # 62- 2012 Camaro Convertible COPO

01-21-2009, 04:35 PM	#4
George Wright Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 185 Likes: 10 Liked 408 Times in 35 Posts	Re: Factory experimental __________________ George Wright https://9500rpm.com

01-21-2009, 03:39 PM	#5
Ken Haase Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 233 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Factory experimental The named racers who are going to be at Pomona are all very experienced, at least the one's whose names are familiar to me, anyway. I seriously doubt they're gonna show their arses first time out. (maybe a little butt-crack) Or, would they?

01-21-2009, 03:43 PM	#6
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Ken, 100% agreed. I predicted Indy will be the true arrival date. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

01-21-2009, 04:03 PM	#7
John Quinn Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bison, KS Posts: 97 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Where is FX in the rule book? This sounds like grade school, a lot of crying before anybody is hurt.

01-21-2009, 04:05 PM	#8
John Lang Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sheboygan Wi Posts: 391 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Just my opinion, but the "sky is not falling". Lets just wait and see how fast they really are! As somebody said, they still have got to hook'em and drive'em, at the finish line ! Two more weeks , Time will tell, John Lang __________________ John Lang 365 STK, SS

01-21-2009, 04:09 PM	#9
Floyd Staggs VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,522 Likes: 162 Liked 229 Times in 99 Posts	Re: Factory experimental There were 2 of them at Fontana Jan. 2nd and 3rd. John Calvert had one and I don't know who was driving the other. Neither one of them could hook up in first or second. That might have been before they went to Mandellas. __________________ Floyd Staggs 787 SST

01-21-2009, 04:12 PM	#10
junior barns Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 541 Likes: 11 Liked 20 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Factory experimental And still went 10.20's