Factory experimental

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

At this point, we're getting way off topic here. I think we've pretty much hijacked this thread more than we should. I've enjoyed the discussion, and I do see where you are coming from, we probably agree a lot more than is evident.

The subject at hand, however, is not the rules in general, but the rules as they apply to whether or not a car is eligible for the class.

Alan, how are we getting off topic? NHRA is breaking their own rules! It IS the rules in general that has let this happen!

[dwydendorf]

The Spirit of Stock has evolved into what is now considered Stock Eliminator. 12 bolt rear ends have replaced 10 bolt rears and Jerico transmissions have replaced Muncie and Saginaw four speeds. If I chose to put my Mustang back in stock I can fit a Jerico in a toploader case and run a nine inch but can the GM and Chrysler racers do the same? Do you want to go back to the way it used to be? Well you can't because time changes everything. Most of the people complaining don't even run the same class as the new cars do, and if you don't run the same class, you are just bracket racing. How do the new cars make your car obsolete if you don't run the same class as them? If the new car was a 2010 Camaro, with an LS1 and Supercharger,there would not be half of the complaints there are now.

[junior barns]

Dwydendorf

I have to disagree as I am a die-hard Chevy man, These cars are factory built race cars and should be in a class of their own!! If GM comes out with a camaro built like these cars then it to should be put into a separate class!! Personally I cant wait to see these cars race but in no way should they be put into the regular classes of stock. If the NHRA cant make a class for these cars then they should go to Super Stock.

Ford(Roush racing) Chrysler and GM against the little stock sportsman racer?? Sounds like a fair race to me!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

The Spirit of Stock has evolved into what is now considered Stock Eliminator. 12 bolt rear ends have replaced 10 bolt rears and Jerico transmissions have replaced Muncie and Saginaw four speeds. If I chose to put my Mustang back in stock I can fit a Jerico in a toploader case and run a nine inch but can the GM and Chrysler racers do the same? Do you want to go back to the way it used to be? Well you can't because time changes everything. Most of the people complaining don't even run the same class as the new cars do, and if you don't run the same class, you are just bracket racing. How do the new cars make your car obsolete if you don't run the same class as them? If the new car was a 2010 Camaro, with an LS1 and Supercharger,there would not be half of the complaints there are now.

Yes, Stock has "evolved". Oddly enough, there are cars that came with 12 bolt rearends running 10 bolt rearends. Yeah, if the price is right, I'm sure someone will come up with the right guts to put in a Muncie case, or an A-883 four speed case.

Yes, there would be plenty of complaints, even if it were a Camaro. Not everyone who has an older AA/S or AA/SA car wants to buy a new car, even if they did, they might not be able to.

Sure, the rules have changed, and won't be going back. But that does not mean they must be allowed to continue to go further and get worse. Saying that every change must be accepted regardless of the effect is much akin to saying that just because someone sneezed over the banquet table where all the food is that it is also okay to put a turd in the punchbowl. Not hardly.

[GUMP]

I really don't get all of the crying about these cars. I have seen both the Challenger and the Mustang up close and don't see a problem with the construction. From what I understand the motor in the Mustangs is assembly line built. The biggest mistake that Ford made was setting the shipping weight so low. If the Mustangs run what you guys predict they won't be around long. The prototype Challengers that I have seen and read about all had a motor combination that won't be in the Stock packages, so without the classification information it is way too early to complain.

It really seems that you guys don't realize that there is a little bit of a Musclecar war going on. I'm sure that the guys racing '55 Chevrolets in the sixties had much the same to say when the Road Runner, etc. came out. The factories are finally trying to build cars that cater to what we do. This could bring some attention back to class racing. We really need to get with the program. As I said about the Mustang, things will work themselves out. Kind of like the LT1 deal. It just takes time.

[goinbroke2]

Originally Posted by GUMP

I really don't get all of the crying about these cars. I have seen both the Challenger and the Mustang up close and don't see a problem with the construction. From what I understand the motor in the Mustangs is assembly line built. The biggest mistake that Ford made was setting the shipping weight so low. If the Mustangs run what you guys predict they won't be around long. The prototype Challengers that I have seen and read about all had a motor combination that won't be in the Stock packages, so without the classification information it is way too early to complain.

It really seems that you guys don't realize that there is a little bit of a Musclecar war going on. I'm sure that the guys racing '55 Chevrolet in the sixtiess had much the same to say when the Road Runner, etc. came out. The factories are finally trying to build cars that cater to what we do. This could bring some attention back to class racing. We really need to get with the program. As I said about the Mustang, things will work themselves out. Kind of like the LT1 deal. It just takes time.

If you said that before, it would of saved me all that typing! LOL!

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

Billy, it seems to me there is a large difference between allowing a small variance in runner volumes because of rule changes over the years and letting a blown aftermarket built race car in stock.

Greg

The problem that I see with the "blown aftermarket built race car" is more of a rated horsepower issue than anything else.If the horsepower rating was more in line with what it 'should" be,the car would probably have to weigh so much that it wouldn't be feasible to race.
If this car can outrun everybody in the class by 1/2 of a second,I see no difference in that than the fact that Greg Hill's E/SA can outrun my family's E/SA Oldsmobiles by a half second.
I am constantly told to "work on my car" or race another combo.Anybody trying to race "HEADS UP" with this particular car that is being discussed should probably do the same.Even if the "runner volume rule" makes some cars slow down,its not going to be by that much.The horsepower factors are still not correct.If this car was rated at 700 horsepower,this whole thread probably would not have even started.Who would race in a high horsepower car over 5000 pounds in STOCK ELIMINATOR?

Does anybody know what rear suspension are run in these cars? Will they work with the current suspension trying to run in the high to mid nines. If these cars do not work will they be allowed to Change to Aftermarket rear bars that "Are not NHRA accepted" In the spirt of safety Will NHRA bend over backwards to help change the rules to make these cars work running this this fast. Should be interesting. Do people think these cars will make good bracket cars with the turbo and all? What do you guys think?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

Does anybody know what rear suspension are run in these cars? Will they work with the current suspension trying to run in the high to mid nines. If these cars do not work will they be allowed to Change to Aftermarket rear bars that "Are not NHRA accepted" In the spirt of safety Will NHRA bend over backwards to help change the rules to make these cars work running this this fast. Should be interesting. Do people think these cars will make good bracket cars with the turbo and all? What do you guys think?

Not directing this to you at all Todd.


NHRA has allowed them in, with factory backing. Do you really have to ask if NHRA will make adjustments and concessions to allow them to be more than competitive? They are not turbocharged, they have crank driven positive displacement superchargers (Eaton says the one we're talking about here can feed a much larger engine) with intercoolers. If you have to race one heads up, you won't give a damn whether or not it'll be "good in bracket mode".

[danny waters sr]

I got it . Make them JR/ PRO STOCK and let them run just before or after Pro Stock. Or If they run stock they should have their own wt breaks and class. I prefer the older stockers. This would be the only way not to effect stocker classes already running .