New cars, old cars and horsepower ratings.

[Dick Butler]

Lots of thought here but Alan hits it on the head. Define what you are wanting, step back and decide if you are willing to make the changes to get there.
Want more heads up? fewer classes.
Want more even HP? Make more runs count to AFHS or 1/8 times
Want more old cars? Decrease HP by a % as suggested prior to given year.
Want to be in a modern motor class with low hp? Buy a new car.
Want to just have a good time? run what you have and enjoy your friends at the races. Points meets are dial in so you are competitive there regardless.
More combinations will only dilute the class structure even more taking away the challenge of being the fastest----------( Fill in your combination) in the country.
I remember clearly waiting for the next Dragster to see how fast the California Cars ran last week or the NJ guys hit the record. With only one guy in your class in the world where is the challenge to run faster?

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by 442OLDS

I will see you at the Sportsnationals in a few days and if we race in class,I will be a half second behind you.

You would have qualified at Indy (must be nice) and you might have won at Indy had you entered.

Isn't that more important than being the winner of E/SA?

To some of us being able to compete for class at Indy is important , having a fast car is something we strive for and work for and spend money on. Ask Bruce Parsons how much time I've spent on his Dyno. I realize that's not what's important to some folks who race stock but it is to me and most of the older guys. The difference between how fast your car is and how fast my car is could be narrowed considerably if you chose to do so. The difference between how fast my car is and the new Mustang or Challenger is a half a second and there is nothing I can do to change that because the hp ratings for those cars are so soft. What got me to thinking about starting this thread was the fact that this winter I have to freshen up Andrew's motor and I was going to do some work on mine to try and make it faster. Should I spend several thousand dollars to try and make our cars go faster or should I just leave mine alone and put rings and bearings in Andrew's car? I'll probably spend the money and see if I cand squeeze a few more hundredths out of our old cars, but I realize it's probably a waste of time and money. In the end I get some satisfaction out of seeing how fast we can make our cars run.

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

To some of us being able to compete for class at Indy is important , having a fast car is something we strive for and work for and spend money on. Ask Bruce Parsons how much time I've spent on his Dyno. I realize that's not what's important to some folks who race stock but it is to me and most of the older guys. The difference between how fast your car is and how fast my car is could be narrowed considerably if you chose to do so. The difference between how fast my car is and the new Mustang or Challenger is a half a second and there is nothing I can do to change that because the hp ratings for those cars are so soft. What got me to thinking about starting this thread was the fact that this winter I have to freshen up Andrew's motor and I was going to do some work on mine to try and make it faster. Should I spend several thousand dollars to try and make our cars go faster or should I just leave mine alone and put rings and bearings in Andrew's car? I'll probably spend the money and see if I cand squeeze a few more hundredths out of our old cars, but I realize it's probably a waste of time and money. In the end I get some satisfaction out of seeing how fast we can make our cars run.

My point was that the horsepower factors are not correct for the "old" cars either.

Great answer Greg. Daryl, the winning of a race is a great goal. For most of us, it dosent happen that often. If your only goal is winning the race and nothing but total victory is unacceptable, you will be dissapointed more often than not. The idea of racing stock, compared to pro ET, or bracket 2 is that we can work on our cars and it means something. If you find a tenth, it can be a competive advantage, bragging rights, or personal pride.

With the brand new cars that are coming in, and the performance they have just started to show we are all in trouble. I'll still race, work on my car, and enjoy the people we race with. When it comes time to go heads up with these new cars, our chances of winning are slim. Like a Sherman tank trying to stop a Tiger tank.

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

To some of us being able to compete for class at Indy is important , having a fast car is something we strive for and work for and spend money on. Ask Bruce Parsons how much time I've spent on his Dyno. I realize that's not what's important to some folks who race stock but it is to me and most of the older guys. The difference between how fast your car is and how fast my car is could be narrowed considerably if you chose to do so. The difference between how fast my car is and the new Mustang or Challenger is a half a second and there is nothing I can do to change that because the hp ratings for those cars are so soft. What got me to thinking about starting this thread was the fact that this winter I have to freshen up Andrew's motor and I was going to do some work on mine to try and make it faster. Should I spend several thousand dollars to try and make our cars go faster or should I just leave mine alone and put rings and bearings in Andrew's car? I'll probably spend the money and see if I cand squeeze a few more hundredths out of our old cars, but I realize it's probably a waste of time and money. In the end I get some satisfaction out of seeing how fast we can make our cars run.

If they were a couple of tenths away, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Most of them are .50 to 1.00 faster than us in bracket mode. That's what can be discouraging.

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Kevin Zaskowski

Greg, if you entered Indy you had a great shot at winning class, especially if you raced Andrew's car in "D". You would have had us all covered by at least 2 tenths, even the Mustang.

Andrew had a great season and will probably end up finishing second in Division 3.
Congratulations!

He might have been able to WIN the Division Championship,but he lost a key fourth round heads up race and it wasn't to a new car!


Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
339L Randi Lyn Shipp 3207 Andrew Hill
E4 ****WINNER**** 0.066 10.537 121.64 0.055 10.664 115.91
D/SA Dial: 11.55 (+/-): -1.013 D/SA Dial: 11.55 (+/-): -0.886
Prior rounds:
E3 (T Gillespie ) 0.079 10.821 0.121 (K Zaskowski ) 0.010 10.788 0.038
E2 (B Bishop ) 0.020 11.262 0.602 (A Fernstrum ) 0.001 10.710 0.030
E1 (N Botten ) 0.100 10.656 -0.004 (E Buth ) 0.019 10.694 0.034
Qualified: #8 10.620 -0.930 #12 10.634 -0.916
Heads-up! Shipp will face Anderson in the next round.

[sammy pizzolato]

the answer is that nhra had it fixed with the fuelinfected cars in there own class like ihra has it. put it back like it was and problem will be solved.then the fuelinfected cars can beat up each other and everybody will be happy again!!!!!!

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by 442OLDS

Andrew had a great season and will probably end up finishing second in Division 3.
Congratulations!

Thanks! I wish I could have made it a few more rounds to win it, but I'll get more chances.

He might have been able to WIN the Division Championship,but he lost a key fourth round heads up race and it wasn't to a new car!


Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
339L Randi Lyn Shipp 3207 Andrew Hill
E4 ****WINNER**** 0.066 10.537 121.64 0.055 10.664 115.91
D/SA Dial: 11.55 (+/-): -1.013 D/SA Dial: 11.55 (+/-): -0.886
Prior rounds:
E3 (T Gillespie ) 0.079 10.821 0.121 (K Zaskowski ) 0.010 10.788 0.038
E2 (B Bishop ) 0.020 11.262 0.602 (A Fernstrum ) 0.001 10.710 0.030
E1 (N Botten ) 0.100 10.656 -0.004 (E Buth ) 0.019 10.694 0.034
Qualified: #8 10.620 -0.930 #12 10.634 -0.916
Heads-up! Shipp will face Anderson in the next round.

This is exactly why Stock Eliminator is so cool, Randi Lynn and I raced at the Indy points race and I won. They went to work, and in Chicago, she beat me. Since then we have worked on my car, and I think it would be a really good race now. It's not just about the round win, it's a hell of a lot of fun winning a heads up against one of the fastest (real) D cars in the country.

Kevin, I'm the same way. I go to every race with the intention of winning, and I believe I can win every race I go to, but winning class or a tough heads up is a huge part of racing Stock too.

[Michael Colaluca]

Originally Posted by sammy pizzolato

the answer is that nhra had it fixed with the fuelinfected cars in there own class like ihra has it. put it back like it was and problem will be solved.then the fuelinfected cars can beat up each other and everybody will be happy again!!!!!!

I dont have a problem with the fuel injected cars anymore, just the "super cars." Give them their own class and the problem will be solved.

Everybody wants to go and win. We all want to win. Nobody is going to turn down the fame and prestige of an eliminator win. Being a class racer, I would think you would have to enjoy the class, and it's unique rules. If you are just here for a paycheck there are better and easier places to race.

Originally Posted by Kevin Zaskowski

This is my goal every race I go to, and I don't think I'm the only one with this mind set. I would rather win a NHRA National event any day of the week as opposed to a class trophy...but that's my opinion.

Greg, if you entered Indy you had a great shot at winning class, especially if you raced Andrew's car in "D". You would have had us all covered by at least 2 tenths, even the Mustang.