Staging light error caught on film & Div. Director's respons

[Racin Mason]

NHRA's staging system malfunctioned in Pomona causing the red light to come on in my lane wihtout the car moving, but luckily someone caught it on tape and posted it to Classracer a little while back. I sent the following e-mail to Division 7 Director Mike Rice last week:

Hi Mike. I have a GT/BA orange Camaro car #7026 and you probably recall the problems we had with the staging lights in round 1 at the Winter Nationals. At the time, the ruling was that I had rocked out of the beams and it was a shallow stage red light. This same issue actually occurred in Vegas as well under virtually identical conditions. Luckily, someone was videotaping the whole thing in Pomona and we can now see exactly what happened.

Here's the link to the video and the run is right at 19:00:


If you watch the video you can clearly see what happens. The tree starts to come down, on the second amber BOTH the pre-stage and stage lights go off and the red light comes on. Exactly three seconds later the red light goes off and BOTH the pre-stage and stage lights come back on. It is clear that the car does not move at all and this is why BOTH lights turn back on when the red light goes off. If it did rock out of the beams, it certainly wouldn't have turned off both pre-stage and stage lights. Even if it did somehow rock the 12" or so between the two beams, the two lights would not have turned right back on again after the red light turns off. They should both be out if the car moved and this is clearly not what happened.

Please watch the video and I think you will agree that there was clearly a malfunction in the timing system. NHRA has used videotape in the past to rectify errors where a win was given to the incorrect driver. Let me know once you review and we can discuss options on how to make this right. Thanks.

--Mike Rice then sent the following response:

It is too hard to see in the video. The shallow stage deal is very real, especially without the StageLoc program. The car doesn’t have to move, just the change in tire pressure when on the brake or two step can be enough to rock out of the beams. There is no doubt in my mind that this is what happened to you at Pomona. You may not physically see or feel car move, but the beams are so sensitive that it happens. You are not the first that it has happened too and certainly won’t be the last.

When the system red-lights, it locks our both the pre-stage and stage beams, which is why both go out. When system resets, it allows them to come back on.

Mike

Am I wrong here? Has anyone else experienced this?

[Sean Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Racin Mason

NHRA's staging system malfunctioned in Pomona causing the red light to come on in my lane wihtout the car moving, but luckily someone caught it on tape and posted it to Classracer a little while back. I sent the following e-mail to Division 7 Director Mike Rice last week:

Hi Mike. I have a GT/BA orange Camaro car #7026 and you probably recall the problems we had with the staging lights in round 1 at the Winter Nationals. At the time, the ruling was that I had rocked out of the beams and it was a shallow stage red light. This same issue actually occurred in Vegas as well under virtually identical conditions. Luckily, someone was videotaping the whole thing in Pomona and we can now see exactly what happened.

Here's the link to the video and the run is right at 19:00:


If you watch the video you can clearly see what happens. The tree starts to come down, on the second amber BOTH the pre-stage and stage lights go off and the red light comes on. Exactly three seconds later the red light goes off and BOTH the pre-stage and stage lights come back on. It is clear that the car does not move at all and this is why BOTH lights turn back on when the red light goes off. If it did rock out of the beams, it certainly wouldn't have turned off both pre-stage and stage lights. Even if it did somehow rock the 12" or so between the two beams, the two lights would not have turned right back on again after the red light turns off. They should both be out if the car moved and this is clearly not what happened.

Please watch the video and I think you will agree that there was clearly a malfunction in the timing system. NHRA has used videotape in the past to rectify errors where a win was given to the incorrect driver. Let me know once you review and we can discuss options on how to make this right. Thanks.

--Mike Rice then sent the following response:

It is too hard to see in the video. The shallow stage deal is very real, especially without the StageLoc program. The car doesn’t have to move, just the change in tire pressure when on the brake or two step can be enough to rock out of the beams. There is no doubt in my mind that this is what happened to you at Pomona. You may not physically see or feel car move, but the beams are so sensitive that it happens. You are not the first that it has happened too and certainly won’t be the last.

When the system red-lights, it locks our both the pre-stage and stage beams, which is why both go out. When system resets, it allows them to come back on.

Mike

Am I wrong here? Has anyone else experienced this?

This actually happens a lot in the Jr Dragster categories. I have been the victim of it a few times, only once in 10 years of bracket racing.

I personally do not agree with the explanation, but I can tell you that the response is going to be the same no matter what. Even on the local track level.

I don't agree, but it is one decision that it as the very least consistently enforced every time I have seen it happen.

[Rich Biebel]

I agree something happened to cause you to be redlit and you car did not cause it. The top light never flickered or went out. Both stage lights went out. I've never seen them go out and a redlight triggered and then they come back on and the redlight goes out......If you rolled forward it would take a lot of movement before the top light would go out and it could be easily seen on the video......if you rolled backward the top light alone would have flickered or gone out to trigger the red....

The explaination about tire flex is just not very creditable to me.....

Check you car for anything that might be hanging low underneath....

In 1982 or 1983 the Pro Stock title was lost thanks to an un explained NON redlight and the same car did the same thing the following year at Gainseville.....No explaination for that one that made any sense either....

[Mickey Whaley]

U got fahqued with no VASELINE!!!

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Mickey Whaley

U got fahqued with no VASELINE!!!

this

[Mike Gray]

Watch the video again, as soon as the first yellow comes on the photographer
(next to your car) camera's flash goes off. Did the light reflect back off the wheels and cause the redlight?

[Jim Wahl]

Yup, you got screwed! Jim

[Don Kennedy]

I experienced the same situation in Wyoming in the eightes ,so what i did was ask the starter to get the division director to come down and see if i red light > i would not move or let up on the brake pedal ,Zimmerman came down to the starting line and i ask him to restart the tree which he did and of course it did not show a red light in my lane . i refused to move until a desion was made and the decison was a re run . I basically made and pushed the issue to prove if I moved which after doing a new tree I did not red light FYI

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Don Kennedy

I experienced the same situation in Wyoming in the eightes ,so what i did was ask the starter to get the division director to come down and see if i red light > i would not move or let up on the brake pedal ,Zimmerman came down to the starting line and i ask him to restart the tree which he did and of course it did not show a red light in my lane . i refused to move until a desion was made and the decison was a re run . I basically made and pushed the issue to prove if I moved which after doing a new tree I did not red light FYI

I feel for the guy losing that way,but if you start making exceptions for this and that after a while someone will ask for a rerun because he started to sneeze as the tree coming down.You know that feeling just before you sneeze.

[Carl Weisinger]

Originally Posted by Don Kennedy

I experienced the same situation in Wyoming in the eightes ,so what i did was ask the starter to get the division director to come down and see if i red light > i would not move or let up on the brake pedal ,Zimmerman came down to the starting line and i ask him to restart the tree which he did and of course it did not show a red light in my lane . i refused to move until a desion was made and the decison was a re run . I basically made and pushed the issue to prove if I moved which after doing a new tree I did not red light FYI

Don,

Now the SAME situation would have been a malfunction caused by the flash of a photographers camera.

I've had the pleasure of talking to "Zim" a few times over the years and I'm surprised
he didn't have your car towed off the starting line with you in it. And, you definitely wouldn't have gotten away with that if Buster Couch had been the starter. You lucked
out getting a rerun on that deal. But, since you didn't say what happened,..... did you
win on the rerun?

In all honesty, Zim restarting the tree and not seeing a redlight didn't prove anything except
your car didn't move out of the beam THAT time.