True meaning

[Alan Roehrich]

I think it was Clark Holroyd that won 2-3 heads up runs in A/SA on his way to the National Event win a year or so ago.

IF you are speaking about Biondo, Bertozzi, Fletcher, or Rampy, (or others like them, for that matter) when you say "professional racers", they aren't often ducking heads up runs. I know for a fact Bertozzi takes his heads up wins and losses like a man. He beat Merrill Schrimscher last year on a heads up, and did not gloat, and he lost to us heads up this year, and came by the trailer and offered a handshake and a "well done". I suspect the same of the other three as well, since I've seen nothing less sportsmanlike on their part. I know before Anthony Fetch put us out, he had just won a heads up race as well. Most of those guys, IF they are "playing the ladder" are looking FOR a heads up they think they can win, and looking for the bye. Most of them have a pretty fast competitive car, for the simple reason is that it is very hard to win when you have to worry about ducking a heads up run. IF that becomes a big concern, it makes life pretty hard.

I agree, more heads up races is better for the eliminator. However, I fail to see how placing class winners who single for their win at 0.501 under is going to generate more heads up runs in the eliminator. They sure aren't going to have a heads up run in the eliminator after they SINGLE for their class win.

Further, IF the vote came during a debate for a two tenth reduction in the indexes, and the vote was in favor of the index reduction, then it was pretty much in favor of not letting anyone single for the win at what now amounts to 0.5 under (since what now amounts to 0.5 under would only be 0.3 under).

MAYBE limiting the field to the 128 fastest cars will reduce the field, and maybe it won't. There will be a different group that will have less chance of making the field. As it stood before the rule change, you have the people who can run 1.0 under in the heat pretty easy, those who gamble they can run about .85 under and get in the top 112 or so, and those who figure they can single for class just barely faster than 0.5 under. AFTER the rule change, you'll have more people who are more encouraged to gamble that .75-.85 under might get them in, and the few that counted on 0.5 under and a single, and can't run much faster, will stay home. Or work on their car and hope. In any event, we probably won't have a good sample this year, since those who really couldn't afford to gamble a year or two ago are even less able to afford it, and more likely to stay home.

[Bruce Noland]

Jeff,
Just in case you misread my post, my comment about personal remarks was directed to Jim.

[Bill Hawk]

I agree with Bruce Noland, i dont think he took anything out of context. He told it the way it is. Alot of guys spend ALOT of money and hours working on there cars, then they come on here and read all the BS from all the whiners because they think its easier to complain then work on there cars. Ill say it just like he did "turn the wick up on your steamers and run with the big dogs OR stay at home and sit on the porch with the puppies and whiners" NHRA class racing is about performance NOT whining. Class eliminations in S/SS have always been based on performance and it should stay that way.

Bill Hawk

[Bruce Noland]

Jim,
You are behaving like a sore loser.

You don't understand all of the meanings of sympathy:
Websters first three definitions of sympathy,
1.) samness of feeling
2.) mutual liking or understanding
3.) the ability to share another's ideas, emotions etc.

You also misjudge my intentions for posting a counter balance to all of your posts.

Thanks Bill.

[Wade_Owens]

Why does NHRA allow this to be a 180 car field in the first place? If it where treated like all other races, the first 128 to enter, would be the field anyway. I know if this where the rule, my 4 grade points probably wouldnt be in the show. But, that is why they use this system, right? To "reward" the racer with an earlier entry date, that runs more divisionals?

It couldnt always be about the money, otherwise they would charge full pop for your extra crew members, right?

SO, why not a 128 car field?................

Wade Owens
3913 Chevelle

[Bryan Worner]

Originally Posted by Wade_Owens

Why does NHRA allow this to be a 180 car field in the first place? If it where treated like all other races, the first 128 to enter, would be the field anyway. I know if this where the rule, my 4 grade points probably wouldnt be in the show. But, that is why they use this system, right? To "reward" the racer with an earlier entry date, that runs more divisionals?

It couldnt always be about the money, otherwise they would charge full pop for your extra crew members, right?

SO, why not a 128 car field?................

Wade Owens
3913 Chevelle

Because it's INDY!!!! The US Nationals!!! The biggest race of the year! A week long event! The most sought after trophy on the circuit! There are a few reasons.......need some more??

The fact all of you against the new rule are missing is.......Stock and Super Stock have many classes. How fair is it for a guy to run .85 under the index and not get in the 128 car field and a class winner, who only got in because he was lucky enough to single for his .50 under class win??? Doesn't sound fair to me in a "performance based" eliminator!!! How can any of you......especially the one's who have constantly cried and whined about lifting, dumping and 1000' racing, be arguing against the fastest 128 making up the field at Indy.......and face it, we're only talking about Indy because that is the only race they allow that many entries! If you don't like this rule that only applies to this one race........don't go to that race! It's simple! If you're out to prove you belong in the elite of your class.....then go there and do just that......or go down swinging......not whining with a keyboard!

[Wade_Owens]

Because it's INDY!!!! The US Nationals!!! The biggest race of the year! A week long event! The most sought after trophy on the circuit! There are a few reasons.......need some more??

Bryan, I know I'm new here and most dont know me. But if you did, you would now I probably know as much about Indy class racing as anyone on this board. Even though I havent raced there, I have followed the history of the sport, especially Indy. You dont have to remind me of how big the event is.

All I'm saying is, if this is such a big deal on both sides, it seems like an easy fix. I'm sure there are several who have entered and now they KNOW they will not be in the field. This should have been in place long before plans where made to attend, or the entries where even opened up.

I'm 100% neutral on this subject, I may or may not get in, but, I damn sure going to try....

Wade O

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Bryan Worner

Because it's INDY!!!! The US Nationals!!! The biggest race of the year! A week long event! The most sought after trophy on the circuit! There are a few reasons.......need some more??

The fact all of you against the new rule are missing is.......Stock and Super Stock have many classes. How fair is it for a guy to run .85 under the index and not get in the 128 car field and a class winner, who only got in because he was lucky enough to single for his .50 under class win??? Doesn't sound fair to me in a "performance based" eliminator!!! How can any of you......especially the one's who have constantly cried and whined about lifting, dumping and 1000' racing, be arguing against the fastest 128 making up the field at Indy.......and face it, we're only talking about Indy because that is the only race they allow that many entries! If you don't like this rule that only applies to this one race........don't go to that race! It's simple! If you're out to prove you belong in the elite of your class.....then go there and do just that......or go down swinging......not whining with a keyboard!

Bryan,
Your a contradiction to your own statments!
Yes, BECAUSE IT'S INDY! That is the idea here.
Has anybody stopped to realize there are some vehicles that although they may be the "top dog" of their class, they may not be capable of running 1.2 under? So for that they should be penalized? Indy has always been "class winners" admitted, all other's fall into their respective positioning. If it's "not fair" it sure has been "fair enough" for the last 40+ years. And those that didn't like the rule for the last 40+ years, stayed home!
The rule book and class guide allows for hundreds of combinations. Those that choose one combo over another should not be penalized. If you win class, through whatever circumstances, you are the Class winner.
Actually, I just had a thought...it could be that it will take an 1.15 under for every car to enter under the new rule. That would be halarious for EVERYBODY to get hit with the AHFS the following Monday. That could be very likely because just about everybody would have the same car or two! Then the following year, when everybody builds the latest trick of the year car, it can start all over again!

[Bruce Noland]

Art,
You keep leaving parts out. Like winning class and then not running the eliminator at Englishtown.

Jeff,
The bump at Indy this year will be well below the figures you are using. Probably .900 under will do it.

[art leong]

Look at the records I ran class and didn't run the eliminator. twice. One time at Maple Grove because I didn't qualify. And once in Gainesville when I broke the car.
Those are the facts "BOZO"