180 hp Caddy Motor

[Adger Smith]

Just some random thoughts. (probably not worth .02) :~)
I was always been under the assumption the original factor was based on the factory rated HP. Then when someone hammers, or works, the AHFS the factors move.
Just because a factory underrates an engine is NOT the fault of you so called "Nimrods"
Let's face it.... There are certain combinations that start out factory underrated that respond well to the changes allowed in Stock & Super Stock. For whatever reason, Some have big induction, decent heads & a small cam. Others have the same with a poor set of Ex manifolds. So, when the NHRA allowed changes take place a precieved slug comes alive. A sleeper suddenly wakes up. Who knows why a Caddy had a 180 Hp engine? Could GM have made it that way so all the grey haired old ladies buying those Caddys thought they got good gas mileage. Probably had to do with the original marketing approach of the times. Looks like the system is working when a combo gets hit as hard as the Caddy engine. The hard working guys that have studied the system & used it to their advantage are just reaping the results. Running fast, qualifying high & adding HP to the combo.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

Just some random thoughts. (probably not worth .02) :~)
I was always been under the assumption the original factor was based on the factory rated HP. Then when someone hammers, or works, the AHFS the factors move.
Just because a factory underrates an engine is NOT the fault of you so called "Nimrods"
Let's face it.... There are certain combinations that start out factory underrated that respond well to the changes allowed in Stock & Super Stock. For whatever reason, Some have big induction, decent heads & a small cam. Others have the same with a poor set of Ex manifolds. So, when the NHRA allowed changes take place a precieved slug comes alive. A sleeper suddenly wakes up. Who knows why a Caddy had a 180 Hp engine? Could GM have made it that way so all the grey haired old ladies buying those Caddys thought they got good gas mileage. Probably had to do with the original marketing approach of the times. Looks like the system is working when a combo gets hit as hard as the Caddy engine. The hard working guys that have studied the system & used it to their advantage are just reaping the results. Running fast, qualifying high & adding HP to the combo.

Good call by Adger. This is same premise when people complain when new cars, such as the Roush Mustangs were added to the classification list. The AHFS will catch up with them eventually.

This particular Olds EFI engine used in the Cadillac, was a dog as an OEM street car. It had many problems related to the ECM and the HP factor from the manufacturer was correct. However, lets take this same engine, built under the current rules were you are allowed an aftermarket ECM and ignition, and other modifications, then you have a performer.

So, for smart people like Real Racer, why don't you tell NHRA how they should factor a new combination when they do not have a baseline to start from and all they have is the OEM HP?

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

Just some random thoughts. (probably not worth .02) :~)
I was always been under the assumption the original factor was based on the factory rated HP. Then when someone hammers, or works, the AHFS the factors move.
Just because a factory underrates an engine is NOT the fault of you so called "Nimrods"
Let's face it.... There are certain combinations that start out factory underrated that respond well to the changes allowed in Stock & Super Stock. For whatever reason, Some have big induction, decent heads & a small cam. Others have the same with a poor set of Ex manifolds. So, when the NHRA allowed changes take place a precieved slug comes alive. A sleeper suddenly wakes up. Who knows why a Caddy had a 180 Hp engine? Could GM have made it that way so all the grey haired old ladies buying those Caddys thought they got good gas mileage. Probably had to do with the original marketing approach of the times. Looks like the system is working when a combo gets hit as hard as the Caddy engine. The hard working guys that have studied the system & used it to their advantage are just reaping the results. Running fast, qualifying high & adding HP to the combo.

Adger;
Explain to me how a 40 year old combo still has to shut it down at 1000' if the AHFS should catch up to correct h.p..

Ed F.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Adger;
Explain to me how a 40 year old combo still has to shut it down at 1000' if the AHFS should catch up to correct h.p..

Ed F.

How do you know he shuts down at 1000'? Where does the rules say you cannot lift?

[Ed Fernandez]

Duh,the mph doesn't go with the et.

Ed F.

[bill dedman]

Well, when you have a basic engine like the Olds 350 that has been flogged for YEARS by racers, you (as an NHRA Tech) should be able to look at the factored HP it has accrued over the years, to see what the potential of that engine might be, minus the 4bbl, better compression ratio, and better intake manifold that is absent on the Caddy F.I. version.

Then, you'd have a little better idea of its potential than just "buying" the factory rating to begin with.

NHRA sure didn't waste any time adding horsepower to the "NASCAR Hemi" before ANYBODY ever put one on the strip. They're usually not shy about that sort of thing.

As far as waiting for the AHFS to take care of the problem, sometimes, you're in for a L-O-N-G WAIT...

I still think they could do a better job in cases like this. Do they live in a cave???

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Duh,the mph doesn't go with the et.

Ed F.

Still waiting for an answer............................................ .................................................. ...........

Ed F.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Still waiting for an answer............................................ .................................................. ...........

Ed F.

You are correct in a way, however, the way the speed is measured from the ET is done with separate photo cells. This is an excerpt from the NHRA Website section called:"Drag Racing 101 - Drag Racing Made Easy":

"Two Separate performances are monitored for each run: elapsed time and speed. Upon leaving the staging beams, each vehicle activates an elapsed-time clock, which is stopped when that vehicle reaches the finish line. The start-to-finish clocking is the vehicle's elapsed time (e.t.), which serves to measure performance. Speed is measured in a 66-foot "speed trap" that ends at the finish line. Each lane is timed independently."

Since you can scrub MPH at the last moment; the E.T. and the weight of the car at the scales after the pass, should be the real indicator. There are many out there that are running way more than the class minimum; therefore, when they get hit with horsepower, all they do is remove weight to stay at the top.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

You are correct in a way, however, the way the speed is measured from the ET is done with separate photo cells. This is an excerpt from the NHRA Website section called:"Drag Racing 101 - Drag Racing Made Easy":

"Two Separate performances are monitored for each run: elapsed time and speed. Upon leaving the staging beams, each vehicle activates an elapsed-time clock, which is stopped when that vehicle reaches the finish line. The start-to-finish clocking is the vehicle's elapsed time (e.t.), which serves to measure performance. Speed is measured in a 66-foot "speed trap" that ends at the finish line. Each lane is timed independently."

Since you can scrub MPH at the last moment; the E.T. and the weight of the car at the scales after the pass, should be the real indicator. There are many out there that are running way more than the class minimum; therefore, when they get hit with horsepower, all they do is remove weight to stay at the top.

Thank you. You got ahead of me.That was the next phase.Those two parameters would begin flags waving.But I guess Nat'l tech has other things to do.

Ed F.

[Bob Pagano]

Not enough of them have been run over the 40 years to make the index/HP factor get in line with other combos that have been run to death. This is nothing new. The same thing has been going on since the inception of Class Racing. In the old days Guys, as one example Ralph Truppi, Searched the classification guides for the combos that could be the next killer combo. You know what I mean, Killer. Have an advantage that was Perceived or real. I've been told it was like a past time to him, spent many hours reading & searching. At that time it was up to Farmer & his HP committies to stay ahead of the game & keep the HP factors in line. In the old days you could just get a hit "Because" or It looks too soft. Now it is up to the AHFS & the data put in it by real runs. It's all the same game. We Just have computers involved in it now & the human element is deminished. They help in gathering & keeping data. They also provide us with the internet where we can keep track of & complain (or talk) about everything. When this soft Olds/Caddy combo is hammered down the players will move on to something else. I can assure you the guys that are good at this are already looking at the next killer combo. To make that point, a little bird named Bob told me about the Caddy combo @ Ennis almost 3 years ago. So now we can all sit in the shade & let these un adjusted combos bask in the sunlight of glory while we wait for the next one or two to come along. This cycle will continue untill class racing comes to an end.

Oops, This is Adger posting on Bob's sign in....