Stick vs. Auto index

[Mike Voth]

Tell me how this is even. We use to run GTF. Same index as SS/HA, but the autos got a 140? pound weight advantage. Now we run GTE. Same index as GT/DA. Another weight advantage for the autos. We make as much HP as any 327 in the country, and all things equal, it doesn't always show on the track. We are lacking in the clutch department (see Westcotts Beretta and Grand Am a few years ago), but can't come close to some of the automatic combinations. We could have reset the E record at Denver this year in the 9.50's, but chose not to because it would have been a bogus, corrected number. Then all would say the auto and stick cars are about equal. This is not the case.

You have to look at the norm, not what is above or below it. It is MUCH more difficult to duplicate a stick combination unless the same person builds both cars. Even then it's not a given. Yet there are many similar automatic cars running similar numbers across the board. Also, you can't compare cars on the east coast to cars in the midwest or left coast unless they come together at the same track on the same day. I would love to see a time slip of our car at Atco or Belle Rose or anywhere there might be -200 feet altitude conditions. But that would not at all be close to the norm for our car.

Yes, transmissions and clutches have come a LONG way in the last 10 years, but not in terms of performance as much as longevity and consistancy. The right automatic transmission change and torque converter change can and will net several tenths in performance. The right transmission and clutch change in a stick car is only good for .10-.15, on average.

Even the indexes. Even the car weights. Run this way long enough to build the proper database of information to make a decision on adjustments that might need to be made. But the only thing I guarantee you will see is who has built the BETTER combinations, not who has the ADVANTAGE based on NHRA rules.

Just my 2 cents worth. . .

[Stewart Way]

On the Wescott runs ot .50 and .51 auto vs stick the other interesting thing is the auto was 1.16 60 with the stick 1.25 in the 60. The stick was still .07 behind at the 1/8. If they get the stick to hook, lookout.

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Mike Voth

Tell me how this is even. We use to run GTF. Same index as SS/HA, but the autos got a 140? pound weight advantage. Now we run GTE. Same index as GT/DA. Another weight advantage for the autos. We make as much HP as any 327 in the country, and all things equal, it doesn't always show on the track. We are lacking in the clutch department (see Westcotts Beretta and Grand Am a few years ago), but can't come close to some of the automatic combinations. We could have reset the E record at Denver this year in the 9.50's, but chose not to because it would have been a bogus, corrected number. Then all would say the auto and stick cars are about equal. This is not the case.

You have to look at the norm, not what is above or below it. It is MUCH more difficult to duplicate a stick combination unless the same person builds both cars. Even then it's not a given. Yet there are many similar automatic cars running similar numbers across the board. Also, you can't compare cars on the east coast to cars in the midwest or left coast unless they come together at the same track on the same day. I would love to see a time slip of our car at Atco or Belle Rose or anywhere there might be -200 feet altitude conditions. But that would not at all be close to the norm for our car.

Yes, transmissions and clutches have come a LONG way in the last 10 years, but not in terms of performance as much as longevity and consistancy. The right automatic transmission change and torque converter change can and will net several tenths in performance. The right transmission and clutch change in a stick car is only good for .10-.15, on average.

Even the indexes. Even the car weights. Run this way long enough to build the proper database of information to make a decision on adjustments that might need to be made. But the only thing I guarantee you will see is who has built the BETTER combinations, not who has the ADVANTAGE based on NHRA rules.

Just my 2 cents worth. . .

Very nicely stated. 4000+ views and nobody came up with an argument, good or bad, in keeping the descrepancies on the indexes. I'd settle for a logical explaination...