Grossi and the Big Block

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

Are you saying submitting a finished a Stock or Super Stock head to NHRA? If you are saying to submit a finished Super Stock head to NHRA, you are dreaming!!! NHRA does not have a flow bench and doubt anyone in the Tech department knows how to use one. Taking this into account, they send the cylinder head to a shop that may also build SS engines, so this way they can get the knowledge and hard work of other shops for free.

That's if they don't loose it!

[SPS]

Believe me, I realize this is idealistic, but if you check with compentent engine designers and builders as well as the cam people, they will tell you that with accurate information, the HP can be accurately predicted from the head flow.

Yes, Lynn, there is a lot of bogus info out there from flow benches to dynos. I see it regularly, as I've had my dyno and bench for over 20 years.

The point is, the rest of us shouldn't have to wait until (or if) the factoring system "fixes" these inequities.

FJ

[RJ]

You can't use port volume as a barometer either, port length throws that one out.

[Dick Butler]

SPS, There is a large group who support the "underfactor deal" They feel the picking of a combo that has been overlooked or inadequately factored is special part of S and SS. Meanwhile a few who HAVE a race car and are financially committed to one combination get HP whenever one of the upper group hit the index deal of AHFS. The only way it will stop is 1) limit the engine combinations to those currently factored and upgrade the AFHS to Really hit the odd combinations( Wont happen)
2) make people submit new combo to NHRA TECH for upgraded factor BEFORE the Monster shows up.
Problem is now days if people can change to keep up after 10 or so are built THEN NHRA seems amazed and starts to factor them even if too slowly.
Some people make a life style of running a "weak" factor motor, winning selling it and moving on to the next weak factor. They are heros in the sense they excell at this part of the rules. Could they be the fastest, quickest, best if 10 were built in their class. Answer is doubtful they are just so first with the combo they are great at the game....they play.

Think there are not some WORSE killers out there now? I agree the method is antequated to use the Dartboard techniques.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

SPS, There is a large group who support the "underfactor deal" They feel the picking of a combo that has been overlooked or inadequately factored is special part of S and SS.

So what is wrong with picking up an underfactored engine? Don't blame it on the racer; blame it on the lack of oversight by NHRA. If they paid close attention to the weight of the car at the scales and compared it to the weight it is supposed to carry for the class and also the MPH, they could figure out how fast the combo can run and figure out it is under factored.

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Meanwhile a few who HAVE a race car and are financially committed to one combination get HP whenever one of the upper group hit the index deal of AHFS. The only way it will stop is 1) limit the engine combinations to those currently factored and upgrade the AFHS to Really hit the odd combinations( Wont happen)

Why limit the engine combinations if the particular engine was available from the factory? Again, you are trying to bring your idea of the Top Super Stock that you have been trying to push so hard many times?

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

2) make people submit new combo to NHRA TECH for upgraded factor BEFORE the Monster shows up.

How can you factor an engine when it has not even hit the track? Do you or NHRA have a crystal ball to figure out the HP of a combination before it hits the track?

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Problem is now days if people can change to keep up after 10 or so are built THEN NHRA seems amazed and starts to factor them even if too slowly.

Again, NHRA's lack of oversight.

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Some people make a life style of running a "weak" factor motor, winning selling it and moving on to the next weak factor. They are heros in the sense they excell at this part of the rules. Could they be the fastest, quickest, best if 10 were built in their class. Answer is doubtful they are just so first with the combo they are great at the game....they play.

Like I stated prior, what is wrong with picking up an underfactored engine? Many of those underfactored combos many times are not Chevy's but other makes of engines that only a few can make go fast.

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Think there are not some WORSE killers out there now? I agree the method is antequated to use the Dartboard techniques.

Yes there are, and believe me, some are not factored low either.

[Jeff Lee]

What's missing is the fact most racers wouldn't even bring out a new combo if it received an immediate (and assumably high) HP hit from NHRA. Take the 1994 LT1 F body for example. Factory rated at 275 HP, we all knew it would be a killer. We also knew there would be a learning curve on these FI engines. At 275 HP, it was worth the risk and hopefully the rewards would be great to the racer. What are they now? 326 HP or so? Had NHRA assigned 320+ HP to them in the begining, you wouldn't see nearly as many of them as you see today.
So I could make the argument that UNDERFACTORING is good.

I just brought to the attention an engine that's been raced and on the books since the '70's to another racer. He has dismissed the engine for his SS/GT project as "over factored" I brought it to his attention there was a revision to the compression several years ago and I thought it was worth a second look. He did and now he is building that engine. So that's an example of an "over factored" engine that maybe isn't so "over factored". I predict he'll be at the top of his class. But it will take going down the track first. And if it get's AHFS'd, then so be it. But I know sure as shinola he and I wouldn't discuss this engine if it was 20 HP higher based on some "what if" HP assignment by NHRA.

[Dick Butler]

SSDiv6 First I have reread my post and no where did I BLAME the racers. In fact I used the word Hero to describe the user of the classic "underfactor" method of building a new car.
Why limit the motors? No this does not have to do with the TOP/SS racing or TOP/STK racing. The opposite. AA/AH is the LIMITED class. Only Hemi cars..... TOP/SS and TOP/STK are for ALL BRANDS to race HEADS UP like CLASS but with MORE PEOPLE in the CLASS.
Factoring before they reach the track? What do you think a 350 chevy flat top motor with a 400 carb and heads should be if all factors are better than a 300 hp motor. Should it be 25 hp less or even or more?
What about an Injected 305 versus a carb motor? Notice I am speaking of chevy combos that have been overlooked in factor correction before they show up and then the begin to eliminate other motors as they are not agressively factored. That is not totally wrong but costly to keep changing to lower hp stuff...
Jeff. Weaker factor is how NEW cars get to be used by racers to do away with old stuff. Seems Nostalgia racing is regaining though.