Coming Soon.....

[Greg Gay]

My memory of the few turbo cars that have been tried in Stock and S/S is that they are usually very fast in their class, but not very consistent. So, a car like this will probably wreak havoc in its class at Indy, but generally not go very far in eliminations.

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by BRETV

Rory, You are wrong, there were no 2003 specs for any Ford in the guide and I wanted to run a 2003 Cobra. So I contacted NHRA and ask them what I needed to do, They told me I had to get someone from Ford to summit all paperwork and specs to them. I contacted Jesse Kershaw and he agreed to send the info. I was building the car per Ford's specs while the process was taking place. Took almost 2 years to finally get it all done. The specs hit the guide and the car was finished around the same time. My uncle went thru the same process back in 1997 to get the 1995 Cobra R in the guides. So as far back as 97, the process has been the same.




Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon

Not that I have a dog in this fight, but what you're choosing to ignore is that you and Jeff chose to follow the conventional path to approval. You chose a vehicle combination that you wanted to race, and approached the manufacturer and NHRA to get that combination installed into the guide.


What you DID NOT do, is built a finished race car BEFORE the manufacturer submitted specs to NHRA....Which leaves the appearance of specific favoritism, since it appears that the specs will be generated around that ONE SPECIFIC race car.


And yes, I know all about the 1968 Cobra Jets....And all the vagaries involved. Ford really twisted the arm of NHRA to get it done...and not for the first time either. But consider that process involved more one specific vehicle. What we are discussing is a completely new and different process towards inclusion in the guide. Darren admits specifically that....."Once everything is approved by the NHRA it will be added to the guide. Then the whole world can see it. Which is exactly how it has always been.".....Really?....Always?
Not that I can blame them for taking advantage of a weak NHRA who's become beholden to Toyota for manufacturer support. If you can afford it, more power to you. But then too, you almost had to have an expectation that when included in the guide it would receive favorable horsepower to make it as competitive as possible.....Otherwise why would you make the investment in preemptively constructing a finished race car....One off transmission adapters included. By the way? What's the Toyota part number for that transmission adapter? Or the manufacturer? Is it an "on the shelf" part?


I believe these are the concerns you sort of glossed over in an attempt to diminish Mr.McNiel's question...though I've never met the man, maybe you could treat another racer with a little more respect, and determine his thoughts first.

[AveryMcLawhorn]

I?ve really enjoyed the thoughtful dialogue in this thread from everyone involved.

Do I personally agree with the Supra in Stock Eliminator? Not exactly. But I genuinely appreciate seeing something fresh and more modern in the class. I understand the mindset and the creative interpretation of the rules that allowed this car to fit within the classification guide. That said, I do want to express a bit of caution ? it feels like we?re inching closer to a single eliminator class with all the rule changes being proposed or implemented. I found myself agreeing with something GUMP said in his interview: older parts are becoming increasingly scarce, and we need to find ways to adapt if we want to keep this form of racing alive.

Credit where it?s due ? GUMP deserves recognition for challenging the status quo and trying something different. There are plenty of more "modern" cars I?ve dreamed of building and seeing in the guide, but I don?t have the resources or connections to make that happen. Hats off to Mr. GUMP for having both, and for taking the leap.

For those who don?t know me, I?m 31 years young. Compared to the crowd I usually race with, I?d say I?m on the younger side ? though I swear I have the mindset of someone in their 60s. I race a 1966 Chevy II and have a deep love for classic cars. I?ll always choose cool factor over pure performance if I have to pick.

That said, as someone from the younger generation, I strongly disagree with the common narrative about what it takes to get younger people into class racing. If you don?t believe me, go to your next test-and-tune or no-time event ? at least here in Eastern NC ? and see how many younger folks are out there.

Racing is alive and well. Young people are still car people. Performance still matters. But most aren?t interested in spending $50K?$100K+ on a car that runs 9?11 seconds. The reality is, we?ve collectively made this sport incredibly expensive to enter. When someone can spend $15K?$20K on a 2000s+ Camaro or Mustang, throw on a $1,500 induction system, and run 8s or 9s in a street-driven car ? that?s a tough value proposition to beat. Heck, in drag and drive event, the NA winner was a modern Camaro running in the 9's. And the more budget friendly cars are slower, then a modern stock car.

And let?s not forget the kids coming out of Junior Dragsters. Many of them end up in dragsters or door cars, bracket racing for more money, with lower entry fees and fewer restrictions. I?m 100% committed to class racing ? I love it to my core ? but the financial barrier is real, the reality is we are slower ETs for more money. Most young people just don?t have the disposable income to spend big money to run 10s when a factory car can do it with minor upgrades.

Just my two cents ? take it for what it?s worth.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Tom Broome

You chose a vehicle combination that you wanted to race, and approached the manufacturer and NHRA to get that combination installed into the guide.

Which is exactly what I did.

What you DID NOT do, is built a finished race car BEFORE the manufacturer submitted specs to NHRA....Which leaves the appearance of specific favoritism, since it appears that the specs will be generated around that ONE SPECIFIC race car.

This has been the case with late model Stockers for quite a few years now. I think that it started with the Corvettes, then the GTOs, followed by all the Challengers, Mustangs, and Camaros. Each of those started with getting a chassis approved.

And yes, I know all about the 1968 Cobra Jets....And all the vagaries involved. Ford really twisted the arm of NHRA to get it done...and not for the first time either. But consider that process involved more one specific vehicle. What we are discussing is a completely new and different process towards inclusion in the guide. Darren admits specifically that....."Once everything is approved by the NHRA it will be added to the guide. Then the whole world can see it. Which is exactly how it has always been.".....Really?....Always?

This paragraph begins with the answer to your question...

Not that I can blame them for taking advantage of a weak NHRA who's become beholden to Toyota for manufacturer support.

You know this as fact? Or, a little speculation on your part?

If you can afford it, more power to you. But then too, you almost had to have an expectation that when included in the guide it would receive favorable horsepower to make it as competitive as possible.....Otherwise why would you make the investment in preemptively constructing a finished race car....

I would expect the same consideration that other OEMs have been given.

One off transmission adapters included. By the way? What's the Toyota part number for that transmission adapter? Or the manufacturer? Is it an "on the shelf" part?

I have gone out of my way to make sure that these parts are available. NHRA is a bubble within a much larger space. The Supra has a growing enthusiast market. Also, you don't need an OEM part number on a legal aftermarket part.

I believe these are the concerns you sort of glossed over in an attempt to diminish Mr.McNiel's question...though I've never met the man, maybe you could treat another racer with a little more respect, and determine his thoughts first.

I don't know him either. I don't see the disrespect in my comment or Brent's. We just added some history.

It's a shame that so many people try to take something like this and turn it into a them versus us thing.....

[BRETV]

Originally Posted by Tom Broome

Not that I have a dog in this fight, but what you're choosing to ignore is that you and Jeff chose to follow the conventional path to approval. You chose a vehicle combination that you wanted to race, and approached the manufacturer and NHRA to get that combination installed into the guide.


What you DID NOT do, is built a finished race car BEFORE the manufacturer submitted specs to NHRA....Which leaves the appearance of specific favoritism, since it appears that the specs will be generated around that ONE SPECIFIC race car.


And yes, I know all about the 1968 Cobra Jets....And all the vagaries involved. Ford really twisted the arm of NHRA to get it done...and not for the first time either. But consider that process involved more one specific vehicle. What we are discussing is a completely new and different process towards inclusion in the guide. Darren admits specifically that....."Once everything is approved by the NHRA it will be added to the guide. Then the whole world can see it. Which is exactly how it has always been.".....Really?....Always?
Not that I can blame them for taking advantage of a weak NHRA who's become beholden to Toyota for manufacturer support. If you can afford it, more power to you. But then too, you almost had to have an expectation that when included in the guide it would receive favorable horsepower to make it as competitive as possible.....Otherwise why would you make the investment in preemptively constructing a finished race car....One off transmission adapters included. By the way? What's the Toyota part number for that transmission adapter? Or the manufacturer? Is it an "on the shelf" part?


I believe these are the concerns you sort of glossed over in an attempt to diminish Mr.McNiel's question...though I've never met the man, maybe you could treat another racer with a little more respect, and determine his thoughts first.

Tom, Unless I miss understood GUMP, I thought he approached the process just like me and my uncle. I doubt he built the car and then got with NHRA and Toyota and pushed it thru.

As far as glossing anything over, I wasn't trying, just telling Rory there has been a process for years.




Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon