ET with and without wheelie.

[Ellis V Buth]

All things equal, a slower 60' will result in a slower ET. Key phrase "all things equal." This means same part of car is tripping the beams...same wind conditions...same tires...same air...etc.

As soon as you trip the beams with something other than what tripped it on the previous pass, that "all things equal" idea goes out the window. With what Ed is saying in his posts above, if you slow down from a 1.280 to a 1.340 in the 60' then you're inherently going to run .06 slower in the 1/4 mile. "What you lose in 60' you lose downtrack" but that is completely irrelevant if the car isn't tripping those beams with the same piece of the car every time.

One track I race at around here will pickup something in front of my tires at the 60' cone in the right lane, but picks up the tires in the left lane. Happens EVERY PASS. But, the ET comes up 7.750 in the left and 7.752 in the right. My 60' will vary by over .04 but my et varies .002 lane to lane. Something there doesn't add up with Ed's theory.

Ed, I may not always like your approach to a topic but I rarely out and out disagree with what you're saying...but on this topic you're leaving out a key component and trying to lead people down the wrong path.

[1320racer]

Originally Posted by Ellis V Buth

All things equal, a slower 60' will result in a slower ET.
Ed, I may not always like your approach to a topic but I rarely out and out disagree with what you're saying...but on this topic you're leaving out a key component and trying to lead people down the wrong path.

I agree with much of the facts you stated as you have agreed with much of the facts I have stated BUT were you go off the rails is with your opinion that I am trying to lead people down the wrong path. I am not!

[Dan Bennett]

Originally Posted by Ellis V Buth

if you slow down from a 1.280 to a 1.340 in the 60' then you're inherently going to run .06 slower in the 1/4 mile.

Billy's already commented but I disagree with this concept as I did yesterday. Remember that "all things being equal" part.

If on one run with the same 60 but you run quicker to 330 you're going to have a better ET. How does that happen?

Hard to explain clearly but I've always thought the engine always needs to be ahead of the car. If one sixty resulted in the car dragging on a struggling engine, it's going to be slower to 330. And if during the other, the engine was happy, singing, and bringing the car along with it, it's going to be quicker. Yes, I'm talking about finish line ET being quicker.

I have seen that happen many times on more graphs than I can count.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dan Bennett

Billy's already commented but I disagree with this concept as I did yesterday. Remember that "all things being equal" part.

Dan, I'm not quite sure what you are disagreeing with. With "all things being equal", then the car "should" run the same 60', 330' and E.T.. If it doesn't then what changed?

[Dan Bennett]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Dan, I'm not quite sure what you are disagreeing with. With "all things being equal", then the car "should" run the same 60', 330' and E.T.. If it doesn't then what changed?

I could and should have been clearer. I quoted that statement to point out that some previous comments had brought up things that make runs NOT equal and it seemed like those were not being considered. Just like you described when things happen after the initial hit that will change what happens at the finish line.


Went back to find what you typed so as to avoid any further confusion.

" If you shift the car too high and the converter locks up OR you have too much low gear in the trans and you don't have enough wheel speed yet, it can "stagger" the car. Make it hesitate on the shift. A lot (not all) Racers with PGs try and shift the car low enough to "flash" the converter again. Especially in bad air.
In a Stocker with a PG, 60' times are irrelevant."

I got the idea that some might be ignoring the important issues you brought up.

[1320racer]

60 foot times are NEVER irrelevant as it relates to ET!

[Frank Castros]

Ed,
Please stop.
Frank

[KRatcliff]

It is simple physics with a massive amount of variables. You have a stationary object that is being measured by time over a distance. Whether or not a wheelie adds or reduces that time isn't a cookie cutter answer.

There are so many variables which impact each and every car. Some examples are power band, gear ratios, aerodynamics, traction, suspension, and parasitic loss.

Take the last three and apply it to whether or not a wheelie will impact the 60' and eventual ET. A wheelie may aid in traction by the transfer of weight, but it also may be wasted motion to some degree or it may alter the suspension/pinion angle enough to create more parasitic HP loss. Too tight of a front end may keep the engine from reaching the ideal power curve thus negatively impacting the 60'/ET.

Experimenting with different settings and setups will get you closer to the optimum performance and it what makes all of this challenging. It is frustrating a lot, but also gratifying when you see the improvements. It can be binary to some degree if you make limited changes with each pass.

Edited to add: Wheelies are flipping fun.