Trump found guilty!

[63corvette]

Originally Posted by Jeff Niceswanger

Ok, I'll give you a couple and shut up. First one is Trumps record. Not him, his record. He tried his best to eliminate Unions. Was licking his chops and ask for a National Right to Work Bill that would eliminate Unions in a very short while.

Jeff, since you were a big union member and supporter please explain how a National right to work would eliminate unions.
I live in Texas and as far as I know it is a right to work state.
There are lots of union shops in Texas so I do not understand how that happens.
Most of the things I know about Unions is the corruption and the thugs that run them.
One of many examples is what happened to Jimmy Hoffa.
I am not being critical of anyone who wants to belong to a union, I just think that is a personal decision and no one should be forced to join and pay into a corrupt system in many instances.
I have a friend who was in an independent union, as he explained it and he says it was great and I believed him. He retired early and enjoys a good retirement.
Just please explain if possible how a National right to work would eliminate all unions.
Thanks
Rick Cates
Canyon, TX

[Mark Yacavone]

Wow..I go away for a day to deal with Stock racing issues, and this thread blows up.

I'm not going to get involved with the minutiae of this sham trial, brought on by a corrupt prosecutor, and judge, who controlled what was allowed, and then gave the jury a roadmap on how to vote for a conviction.
This all with a resuscitated case of an alleged offense , in an election year, that has never been brought before, all in a district that voted 90% for FJB .

If this is accepted, God help our Constitution.
and God help those who think this is a good idea.

BTW, this doesn't help Biden with his problems at all.

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by 63corvette

Jeff, since you were a big union member and supporter please explain how a National right to work would eliminate unions.
I live in Texas and as far as I know it is a right to work state.
There are lots of union shops in Texas so I do not understand how that happens.
Most of the things I know about Unions is the corruption and the thugs that run them.
One of many examples is what happened to Jimmy Hoffa.
I am not being critical of anyone who wants to belong to a union, I just think that is a personal decision and no one should be forced to join and pay into a corrupt system in many instances.
I have a friend who was in an independent union, as he explained it and he says it was great and I believed him. He retired early and enjoys a good retirement.
Just please explain if possible how a National right to work would eliminate all unions.
Thanks
Rick Cates
Canyon, TX

I've been in Emerald Isle NC with the family for the last week. Little behind here.

Rick, whenever a Right to Work status is forced on a workforce, several things happen with the sole intent of making life hard, if not impossible for a small union to survive.
1) First, anyone is allowed to blow off the dues. So, if you don't want to join, you don't have to. I don't have a problem with this part, it's what comes next that I distain.
2) The local is required to treat a non-payer the same as a due's payer. So, if you get stiffed on your paycheck, the company balks at making it right, and you happen to be a non-payer and want to file a grievance and have the local pursue your claim, or even spend 5 grand on an arbitration, it MUST happen by the RTW laws. This is really hard on a local trying to survive. It spends our money and infuriates Stewards that are forced to take care of free loaders. Fair huh?
3) Then, once a year, at the locals cost a yearly election must be held. This ties up the local's money, and time. All "NO Shows" are counted as NO votes. So, if you have 100 members and 40 show up and vote yes, but 60 stay home, your 'voted out' and the local is dissolved. Fair huh?
4) Then there's the payroll deduction. In most RTW states it is illegal to withhold payroll deduction from a member's paycheck. It's fine if your withholding girl scouts, united way etc... everything is just as it has always been and not an issue, unless you're talking about and trying to withhold union dues. This is designed to turn the local into bill collectors. If you have an issue and can't pay, (the car broke down, dogs sick, etc) but this happens week, after week, after week. Its not very long till everyone else says, "HEY, if they're not going to pay I ain't either" and the hole system collapse's. Fair Huh?
5) It varies from state to state, but many RTW laws are written so that it is illegal to bargain for pay and benefits. You can bargain for language such as break times, work rules, major offences, etc. but the thing that's most important and the reason 90 % of folks want a union... is outlawed. Most employees' thoughts, mine included,.. is 'why have a union? What's the use? Fair huh?
As you can see, its quite clear when Trump ask for a National Right to work Bill he was not doing it for any other reason than to eliminate unions for good. There are only 10 % of the workforce still in organized labor and this would have been a death blow.
And yes, the larger Internationals can prop up RTW state unions. But it's not sustainable. And the Republicans know it. Thats the reason they have been on a 30-year RTW rampage. You will notice as soon as a state is solidly red, it's not long till the RTW legislation is forced through. Currently over 1/3 of the US is Right to Work, every single one in a very red state.

Trump has encouraged freeloaders, made it more difficult to enforce collective bargaining agreements, silenced workers and restricted the freedom to join unions:

Trump has packed the courts with anti-labor judges.

Trump has stacked the National Labor Relations Board with anti-union appointees (wall street attorneys) who side with employers in contract disputes and support companies who delay and stall union elections, misclassify workers to take away their freedom to join a union, and silence workers.

Trump has made it easier for employers to fire or penalize workers who speak up for better pay and working conditions or exercise the right to strike.

A Right to Work Union is nothing but a sham because freeloaders get the benefits others pay for.
I'm not voting for that, why would I?

[SStockDart]

The term ?right to work? relates to or promotes the right of a worker to be able to obtain employment without being required to join a labor union to do so. When right to work laws are in place, workers cannot be compelled to pay for any cost of union representation, even if the union is active in the workplace and represents many of the other employees.

It is a government regulation of contractual agreements between labor unions and employers to prevent the exclusion of non-union workers.

You know and have heard of not joining the union.....slashed tires, broken windshields, beat downs. Unions are not necessary for a person to have a good living and enjoy your jobs. Over 90% of the work force is non-union. In 1983, 20% were union. Why the decline.....???? Unions are a business. Their income is from dues. They are not needed, the government regulates employment.

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

The term ?right to work? relates to or promotes the right of a worker to be able to obtain employment without being required to join a labor union to do so. When right to work laws are in place, workers cannot be compelled to pay for any cost of union representation, even if the union is active in the workplace and represents many of the other employees.

It is a government regulation of contractual agreements between labor unions and employers to prevent the exclusion of non-union workers.

You know and have heard of not joining the union.....slashed tires, broken windshields, beat downs. Unions are not necessary for a person to have a good living and enjoy your jobs. Over 90% of the work force is non-union. In 1983, 20% were union. Why the decline.....???? Unions are a business. Their income is from dues. They are not needed, the government regulates employment.

Did you not read my post Gary? We have to represent them when they have no obligation to pay as all the other members. You think that's right? RTW is about getting people to "work for less". Period. You're a company guy. I sit across the table from guys like you. I remember the pricks and the dirty deeds done dirt cheap. You think it's not a 2-way street? You talk about twisting the word "intent" around! You guys were the BEST at it ! Amazing what butt hurt bosses will do. We just want left alone and a fair contract followed. And BTW, our local got along with the company just fine. When a company is making millions, no, Billions in profit there is no reason their employees can't make a middle-class standard of living. That's all we ask.
Before I end, you need to know how much I made in this business you seem to know all about. I had the local pay my union dues, 63 bucks a month. And we paid the vice, chief steward, and financial secretary also. All the members had to vote on the amounts. The international was sent 1/2 of our due's collections. With that money they trained our stewards, sent lawyers to arbitrations and negotiations, put together a nice newsletter that kept tabs on what the political parties was proposing and voting on that would benefit or harm us and took care of membership drives to help others wanting to unionize. The other half we kept in house to pay for our negotiators from the different departments during negotiations, paid me for putting on monthly union meetings (one for 1str shift, second and third) and paid to send our delegates to the conventions. We also had to pay for the union hall, the office supplies and such things as laptops, printers etc. The International President, the leader of the pack so to speak, could not make any more in wages than the highest paying dues members yearly wages. Sure you know what you're talking about there bub? All unions are not the same, but your adamant they are.

[SStockDart]

RTW is about letting employees keep their hard earned money and not donate to the historical thuggery of unions. Have you forgotten, I was once a union steward for the Teamsters before I was a manager a Fortune 500 company. I've lived on and seen both sides and prefer employees being able to walk up to a manager and have a conversation without consulting the union first. Who issued your pay check and probably paid for most of what you have? The company. You have them to thank not a greedy union that takes your money. Have a nice day. No need for unions anymore.

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

RTW is about letting employees keep their hard earned money and not donate to the historical thuggery of unions. Have you forgotten, I was once a union steward for the Teamsters before I was a manager a Fortune 500 company. I've lived on and seen both sides and prefer employees being able to walk up to a manager and have a conversation without consulting the union first. Who issued your pay check and probably paid for most of what you have? The company. You have them to thank not a greedy union that takes your money. Have a nice day. No need for unions anymore.

So.... the answer is to eliminate them. Thats your take on it Gary? Because that is what we're talking about. Trump is trying to wipe them off the surface. Not how much you personally like or dislike them. Your stewardship was back in the early, early days and I lived in that timeframe also. Unions are not remotely the same as back in the 60-70's. Somehow you think since you were a steward that all unions are just like the one you were in back in the day. Wrong. People that are currently, (not back in the hippy days), members of unions WANT them. And want left alone. You say Unions are not needed. Just go ask the members if they want to go without representation. Alot of people hate our noisy dragstrips too! Maybe we should just get rid of all those damn noisy places!

[Chevy55]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

RTW is about letting employees keep their hard earned money and not donate to the historical thuggery of unions. Have you forgotten, I was once a union steward for the Teamsters before I was a manager a Fortune 500 company. I've lived on and seen both sides and prefer employees being able to walk up to a manager and have a conversation without consulting the union first. Who issued your pay check and probably paid for most of what you have? The company. You have them to thank not a greedy union that takes your money. Have a nice day. No need for unions anymore.

The States with Prevailing wage laws and also allow Project Labor Agreements construction workers earn 2 to 3 times as much when including fringe. Contracts that are being signed this year are in the range of $14 to $16 hr increase over 4 years,.
Union trade school is free and you earn while you learn, your comment that Unions aren't needed today absolutely makes no sense!

[SStockDart]

Try this on.

1. A young man in high school decides what he wants to do in life.
2. He goes to college, trade school, or OJT to be trained in his chosen field.
3. He applies for a job. Is explained the details of wages, schedule, and benefits.
4. He accepts the job. If he doesn't like it, he quits.
End of story...no union

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

RTW is about letting employees keep their hard earned money and not donate to the historical thuggery of unions. Have you forgotten, I was once a union steward for the Teamsters before I was a manager a Fortune 500 company. I've lived on and seen both sides and prefer employees being able to walk up to a manager and have a conversation without consulting the union first. Who issued your pay check and probably paid for most of what you have? The company. You have them to thank not a greedy union that takes your money. Have a nice day. No need for unions anymore.

The International Union of Operating Engineers is comprised of more than 400,000 members throughout the United States and Canada. Answer me this, who going to get the better health and dental insurance, who is going to get a pension vice a 401k that the individual pays for, who is going to work in a safe environment. Who is more likely to be screwed out of prevailing wage when working a public works job?????