The Compulink AUTO START System once armed to :ON

[Cglrcng]

Next up, my deep dive back at my pit spot into the rulebook.I jump in find Race Proceedures Section 2, and everything is covered (well, all except of course not the Compulink Sure Start System that was put into affect 15 years ago, which jumbled up the whole ball of wax). As you no longer have to actually stage a car to foul out. You don't have to actually stage a car (if the system is used as designed), to make a legal qualifying attempt and break your car, roll in too far, roll back once prestaged, or fail to stage as long as your competition in the other lane on the pass turns on bulb 3 after the Compulink Sure Start System is armed to ON by the starter.

I have zero idea at this point where that will leave me. (I feel terrible for him, since 1975, I can be a fierce competitive racer. From Ready line to finish line), but everywhere else, we are family folks. I was ready to dive in and get dirty to help him ready his car for Sunday morning, and no way we can fix it in 3 hrs, but having all day and night (except for lane call of C1 I was his if he wanted, and everything I could help him with).

Ok, I wait, read the rules, go see him again, and his car was next to the motor home in his pit, he is not there, so I go to base of the tower and donate to RFC for the Q1 sheet, the Q1 incrementals sheet, and the Pairings sheet for Stock class, turn to Incrementals and it is there O'Connor entry number, name, class, and no incrementals but broke at the end w/ the time. Look at the Q1 qualifying order, his entry and pass do not appear there at all, then look at the Class pairings sheet for Stock and I appear all alone in EF/S. (His entry is no longer listed).

I now assume that he approached the Div. Director Matt, and pled his case and he allowed him to withdraw.

Book says. Sometimes a D.D. needs to make decisions at the event and we have to accept them, their decision, without fail, without question, and it is non-appealable. (Though there is an official appeal process available later...at a $1,000.00 posting).

So, I arrive 3rd car to the C1 lane call, I am told by lanemaster Ron, I have Mr. Snow, fastest car in the Auto Combo, vs my now slowest car in Auto Combo of 6 cars. I ask Ron. If O'Connor was granted the withdrawl from the event, Ron says I have no idea what you are talking about.

I state there were 2 of us in EF/S, until Q1, he broke inches from the stage beam, but was prestaged, fouled out, and I now appear alone on the pairings sheet in EF/S, was he allowed to withdraw.and he said Matt could tell you, but he laddered you in the Auto Combo, so it appears so.

Find your dance partner and pair up. I did (while I had something for another EF/S car at Vegas 3/10ths quicker), this time i had nothing for Mr. Snow at -.500 under, did my best, cut a decently good .012 light, ran -.166 under, lost to his -.475 under .117 light. A good race but out after C1.

Sunday was a much better day, there was no EF/S Wally winner at the D74 race for 2024 sadly for both of us. (Worse for him no doubt, broken transaxle).

I accept that bad situation, but I still do not understand why he was not assigned a 28.00 second time on Q1, left on the sheet, and allowed to fix his car, must accept the fact that he was allowed to withdraw and must accept that decision made on the fly by the rules by the Division Director, and held by the same race proceedures rules to not argue with the decisions made.

Disappointed am I, but rules are rules...Or, are they?

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Tuesday night following the D-73, and D-74 races Bill. O'Conner texts me, said he was highly surprised that I was not given a bye in EF/S Class as Division Director Matt did not allow him to withdraw, that he denied the request at the track on Saturday.

Now, I am not only shocked, I am angry. (As I also knew Carl Downard had also broken his I/S Vette (I was also sad for Carl, any breakage is rough, right before Class Elims. Really rough), on his Q1 pass and his competition also received a bye in both Class, and in E1. I made that nasty post in the Mopars at Vegas thread about 10 mins after finding out about the withdrawl denied situation. Looking back it wasn't the time to post it. (But, I meant the either or, just should never have said anything like "The Bean Counters", I regret I typed that, but I said it, and did not go back and edit it out, it looks like it was rectified at least 1 way.

Bill fired off an e-mail to D.D. Matt, I did the same, each pled his case, mine was a list of questions, his another attempt requesting a withdrawl (it sure appears at least by the points listing, that it was granted post race after that Tuesday). BTW, as of now, neither of us has to my knowledge received a written or verbal response from Division Director Matt, though some action was taken post race.

It appears they are no longer holding the D74 race against him by the points assigned. But, not a single answer of my multiple questions, not a negative response, just zero response so far. No communications.

Then right after I hit send on my questions to D.D. Matt of Division 7 it hit me, this whole issue is caused by the instituting of the Compulink Sure Start System ( research began, I rememberit was long ago, found out Season begin 2009...and I sent Matt another mail asking if that was the actual issue?

Still over the last 2 weeks, zero response to my questions, and then I go research the system vs the rules fully, and boom, it isn't even mentioned in the race proceedures rules Section. At all.

I cannot fault a Division Director, his job is made that much tougher by the rules not reflecting race reality.

The stupid rules as concerns Race Proceedures after 15 yrs needs Ammending, because the rules do not reflect reality, it puts all the D.D.'s in a bad spot (as well as racers), and if this can happen to us, it can (has possibly in the past 15 years), happened to everyone, many, some / can again happen to anyone at one time or another. And it will happen again, less to the Pro's, more often to those categories w/Class Racing.

The order of starter signal, and stage has been changed as it relates to every race when using the Compulink Sure Start System, as it relates to the start, and Qualifying sections.To when the incomplete pass 28.00 second assignment plays into qualifying results, etc., and to a qualifying attempt is charged to a registered competitor.

It isn't that hard to reword and do the Ammendment(s) to the race proceedures ruleset, and it needs fixed ASAP, get rid of the conflict(s) in the ruleset.

The rules need changing now, just as bad as the system with the tree needed changing back then (in 2008).. Get rid of the gray, and bring it back to black words on a white background, and simply make the words reflect the reality we all race under w/ the Compulink Sure Start System in the Race Proceedures where it belongs, as it affects Qualifying, it affects the Qualifying Attempt(s), and the incomplete pass sections along with what constitutes a legal run, and when a competitor may even request a withdrawal from an event.

It affects the entire section in many places, but the way it now reads, and the actual conducting of the event proceedures are in conflict by the missing, and misplaced wordings. (Simply wordsmithing). Updating .

The situation happens when technology progresses, and the Ammendment of rules fails to simply keep up. But, it should be corrected sooner, rather than later. NHRA please fix it!

Now, that is has been pointed out, there is a big issue, please help me pressure NHRA rule makers to fix this simple issue, so all will know exactly what the correct process is in the future.

There is more in depth info out on the net as to the exact types of variables the Compulink Sure Start system uses, and it is a lot of what leads to the varying questions that were posed in the thread, it was designed to keep the guessing at the tree to a minimum and not start timers at a stage beam blink, or turn of the wheel, and make it more human like.

I will post more links tomorrow, but getting the rules to reflect we even use the system should be priority 1 right now.

[Cglrcng]

I will edit to fix that last post later, right now it is 5:48 AM, and I need coffee, and my eyes are whacked out. Sry all, thanks for reading a novel.

[Cglrcng]

I hope I am not coming off whiney, or crying over spilled milk, rules right is my mission.

Disappointed yes, over it yes, things could have been much worse I realize in hindsight...I look much worse than Bill's entry on paper, but rest assured, I know what the car is capable of at Vegas and I had made changes, little changes, about 5 of them, the things Class racers can and do often do to pick up enough to compete in class. And I was willing to push the car, to max capable for 2 passes Q1, and C1 competition for a 1 and done trophy run.

It would have been a dead up tree battle, side by side at the stripe, hands in the air battle. Basing it on his .37/.27 the day before I have 2-3 10ths at Vegas in the car, I just don't yet have a half second under there, and I know it. I was willing to run it a qt low on oil 5W-20 for 2 passes (Q1, C1 and done), and at only 135 Mile's on the fresh engine build, not ready to do so for 4 runs (Q1, C-1-3), it would take in the Auto Combo and after I showed alone on the class pairing sheet (assumed Bill was withdrawn), I saw Mr. Snow's Q1 pass was -.500 (I cannot run a half a second or more under there yet, close no cigar, barring a miracle, I put that qt. of oil back in, left most of the other changes made, and headed for the lanes not knowing if I had a bye or was laddered into the Auto Combo, found out soon enough,, took my shot at the tree, good enough on my end, but had nothing on the stripe end as I drove it like Q2, not balls to the wall as that wasn't going to do it, and I knew it.

Looking back, I am glad now as if I would have been able to run with him, I would have (hindsight is great, I had no business running him (Mr. Snow should have received the C1 bye, as he was fastest in the Auto at 5 cars, and I should have received the EF/S bye). It would have possibly turned out differently if I could run a half second or more under based on the lights we cut, then I would feel 2" tall now knowing what I know. So, sometimes things work out for the best. It still hurts, but rules getting right eventually is a lot more important, time now to get the car faster, better luck next time. Some people those trophies do not mean much, to me, at this point, after sitting out 2.5 decades, closer to end than middle of life, they mean a lot, maybe too much, crap a single dance on the top end w/ a really fast car, or a slow car, and a round win are golden. I am finally on the right (green), side of the tree and not dead late (I have been both, by a tiny bit, and by extremes), and I am excited to finally pull my head out and get back into the game, especially in my turtle of a car. Just to go out there a couple of rounds competing is special. Now, I am looking forward to improving the car no matter the costs.

And hopefully improve communication starting today.

[bigshow2966]

Every track I have raced at (brackets) we have been told Autostart was 7 seconds.

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by bigshow2966

Every track I have raced at (brackets) we have been told Autostart was 7 seconds.

And you would be correct (about 7 seconds, plus or minus), if track clear & switch is armed as both approach pre-stage, takes both to start, and can sit there both pre-staged all day (at least until the starter directs you both in), nothing happens...but once one stages, or both, those variables get closer, tre is activated, then lots of tiny variables take over. However, if driver 2 does not stage up, that time out period ends (redlight)red-light, deep stage both can get caught (both out,only 1 goes deep 1 out, rollback same, leave early same, first or worse takes over, except final round on the deep double foul, that ends up a rerun). More foul variations of course.scales/fuel ck, lots to list.

The evolution of the game over the years is cool, and why I will never understand anyone going off of a flagger or flashlight personally. It took us a loooong time to get here, why go backwards?

[JP1738]

I made my way through this novel and I have a few take-aways.

For starters, you are absolutely right, the verbiage of the rulebook needs to be updated to include, in detail, the exact mechanisms autostart uses for all classes, how it is activated, and specific descriptions of each scenario that is possible. At this point, all we have to go on is precedent, and that is not enough.

You should have been awarded the buy-run in C1 of the EF/S class race. Your man made a legitimate attempt to get on the qualifying sheet and failed to post a time. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, especially given he was not awarded a withdrawal. I hate that happened to you, but I'm glad it inspired this conversation and that you are trying to turn your misfortune into a learning experience for all of Class Racer and hopefully for the NHRA Rules committee or whoever is in charge of updating the rulebook.

EF/S is cool. I want to build one too. I still have the '93 Ford Festiva I drove to high school and it's either getting cut-up for a small block or turned into an EF/S in the next few years. Haven't decided which and I have no time-table for either.

I think the disallowing of deepstaging is retarded. Pros are allowed to do so, why not sportsman? I would not deepstage even if I were allowed to, but I've no idea why we aren't permitted to. If a guy accidentally punches one in deep, I don't think he should be DQ'd for it. Make it where deepstaging is not honored, do so at your own risk, but an instant red seems too punishing to me. Just my opinion. A guy trying to get deepstaged when it isn't honored, or accidentally doing so is probably not winning that round or the race anyway, so why do we have to throw him out? I don't get the thinking behind that.

DD communication is pretty poor across the board. In D2, Cody Savage has been the best I've experienced, but he still isn't perfect. Communication can be delayed, decisions aren't clear at times, but overall he does a great job and is more than fair to participants.

Shoutout to all my slow brothers! I am not 17.00 slow, but in the 5 Stock eliminator races I've entered, I've still never left first.

TL/DR: I'm with you on all the autostart stuff, it needs to be more clearly written and described so all can understand. Seems strange to me that we've had the system for 15 years and yet it is still shrouded in confusion at times.

[Cglrcng]

Last thoughts. After reading all I can so far find concerning info about the Computek Sure Start System, attempting to understand why, how it was coded, when, and the stuff and reasoning used. My humble opinion, great system, it works as designed. But, it was never added to our ruleset.

It is high time our ruleset includes it. Let's ask for a change to ammend the Race Proceedures , Section 2 of the NHRA to finally include the system we race under and use. Then this situation will not smack any of us side the head again....Next time it may get you instead of Bill and I, and that would be a shame.

And I would fight just as hard to avoid it getting you too, or us again. I have offered to help Build Bill's transaxle back stronger so that pin can never fall out of either one of ours again, I hope he takes me up on it, we have unfinished business on the track I hope.

I have personally no suggested changes I can think of concerning the Sure Start System itself, beyond adding it to the ruleset so there are no conflicts. It was designed to be good, not perfect...it replaced perfect and guessable.

The other answers are approx. 10 or 7 seconds, and all the other variations and variables you will find at the following link ...if you can fully understand them.

It took me 10 readings and a lot of math, and all I could think of was RIP Buster Couch! What a really cool memorial to the original NHRA Starter. And thank you to the Compulink Crew.

https://www.draglist.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=473

[Cglrcng]

Digest all those timing variables, do a crapload of math, guess and you are going to get caught, the starter as long as he has a clear track, can arm it early, or as late as both fully staged (though that is dangerous), as long as the class isn't allowed to burnout across the line that is on the arming it early.

Then, once armed, 3rd light lit, flashes don't count pretty much, pre/ post counts are finished, tree activation (never exactly repeated the same, as timing variations are preset to be a dice roll game by the computer coding), just emulating a human without any emotions. So, most of the situations in the thread pretty much can happen, nobody is really wrong, almost all can be right.

It is the ruleset (not taking the system into account, that is currently wrong). As once armed (Starter go signal, competitive drivers start or activation is in their hands, and you can actually attempt a qualifying pass by just pre-staging, can foul out and never actually get staged, can have an incomplete pass, and never actually get staged up, as long as you prestaged together if that switch was thrown by the starter to Compulink Sure Start :ON, and the rules say an incomplete pass is assigned a 28.00 second qualifying time. Broke or not, later Q passes count, C1 in our case is advertised and announced also as Q2.

But, without the system even mentioned in Section 2, Race Proceedures it is then something that will create conflicts, and push decisions off onto NHRA Division or National Event Director(s). And on the fly decisions like that (for no good reason at all), are not fair to them, or the competitors.

Anyone actually disagree that the ruleset needs ammending? Please enter the debate, state your case.