What would it take for you to attend a Sportsman Race

[Ron Ortiz]

SFG Promotions seem to be working pretty good with bottom heavy payouts scheduled for this year.
Maybe we can get Kyle Riley, Pat Joffrion, Bo Butner, Jason Line, Dave Connolly, Ken Miele, Michael Beard, and others that promote drag racing to somehow come together in a zoom meeting or phone calls, come up with a series for Stk/SS in different geographical areas.
50 car quota at a race, really. Only a $2,000 purse with a high entry fee. Four days to complete a single race. This is what we get with a national event, and people can't even get in due to low grade points.
I know a big $$$ races would work for Stk/SS, a lot of cars out there. We have to try again, because if we don't, we won't be racing at all.
It killed me not to be able to attend the Sportsman race because the car wasn't even close to being ready. Can't understand why racers wouldn't attend.

[MR DERBY CITY]

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz

SFG Promotions seem to be working pretty good with bottom heavy payouts scheduled for this year.
Maybe we can get Kyle Riley, Pat Joffrion, Bo Butner, Jason Line, Dave Connolly, Ken Miele, Michael Beard, and others that promote drag racing to somehow come together in a zoom meeting or phone calls, come up with a series for Stk/SS in different geographical areas.
50 car quota at a race, really. Only a $2,000 purse with a high entry fee. Four days to complete a single race. This is what we get with a national event, and people can't even get in due to low grade points.
I know a big $$$ races would work for Stk/SS, a lot of cars out there. We have to try again, because if we don't, we won't be racing at all.
It killed me not to be able to attend the Sportsman race because the car wasn't even close to being ready. Can't understand why racers wouldn't attend.

Kyle Riley and SFG promotions promote races that cater to bracket racers. That is ONE of the reasons that SFG is so successful. Bracket racers ACTUALLY show up to race for BIG $$. The late Alex P. Denysenko is the ONLY promoter that hosted a large scale stock/superstock race that was successful. It was a ONE and DONE in 2001. Lee Zane,Brian Van Poppel, Bo Butner, Jason Line , Dave Connolly , Michael Beard and Ken Miele all promoted large stock/superstock races that were NOT supported by the stock/superstock racers. History shows that they WILL NOT be supported in the future, it’s time to move on. One promoter that I have omitted is 25 year old Tyler Bohannon. He promoted a stock/superstock race in 2021. He had a wonderful vision, a hard working team , a CIC race, sponsor give a ways, the race was held at a beautiful track and he too, LOST MONEY. Beating his head against the wall, Tyler has another stock/superstock race scheduled this August in Madison,Illinois. Here is your big chance Ron ……it may be your last …..with warmest regards ………MJ …..

[Timothy Fletcher]

After doing this with Ken for 3 years here is what we've learned it takes...

•It has to be at a facility that is reasonably close to everyone in the country.
-but the facility has to be flat and level for parking.
-and the facility has to be "fast".
-but the facility has to be easy to get to from the highway.

•It has to be a weekend that you can loop it with another race.
-but it can't be too close to other races because then it’s too many in a row
-and it can’t be too early in the season because no one is ready
-but then it can’t be too late because then everyone has encountered problems
-but then it can’t be in the middle because there’s too many races
-and it can’t be this weekend or that weekend because it’s my nephews bar mitzvah

•It has to be a weekend with a good forecast.
-but then it can’t be too hot because then it’s too hot
-and then it can’t have a 1% chance of rain because then people don’t want to sit in the rain
-but then it can’t have a head wind because then the cars go slow
-and then it can’t be too sunny because then it’s too hot

•It has to be a reasonable entry fee for reasonable pay.
-but then it can’t cost too much because a lot of racers are on a budget
-and it can’t cost too little because then it’s not worth the wear and tear
(basically, it needs to be $15 to enter and $15,000 to win)

•It has to be on the weekend because people can’t take off work.
-but then it can’t start Friday because people have work
-and then it can’t start early Saturday because people don’t want to drive through the night Friday after work to get there
-but then it can’t end late Sunday because people have work Monday

With all due respect and no offense, THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO TO PLEASE THE STK/SS COMMUNITY. You all deserve NHRA and the **** they put you through.
$350 or $200 to enter
$100 for your wife
3–4-day long events
1 race
BUT A WALLY!

See "ya'll" at Gainesville!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by timothy fletcher

after doing this with ken for 3 years here is what we've learned it takes...

•it has to be at a facility that is reasonably close to everyone in the country.
-but the facility has to be flat and level for parking.
-and the facility has to be "fast".
-but the facility has to be easy to get to from the highway.

•it has to be a weekend that you can loop it with another race.
-but it can't be too close to other races because then it’s too many in a row
-and it can’t be too early in the season because no one is ready
-but then it can’t be too late because then everyone has encountered problems
-but then it can’t be in the middle because there’s too many races
-and it can’t be this weekend or that weekend because it’s my nephews bar mitzvah

•it has to be a weekend with a good forecast.
-but then it can’t be too hot because then it’s too hot
-and then it can’t have a 1% chance of rain because then people don’t want to sit in the rain
-but then it can’t have a head wind because then the cars go slow
-and then it can’t be too sunny because then it’s too hot

•it has to be a reasonable entry fee for reasonable pay.
-but then it can’t cost too much because a lot of racers are on a budget
-and it can’t cost too little because then it’s not worth the wear and tear
(basically, it needs to be $15 to enter and $15,000 to win)

•it has to be on the weekend because people can’t take off work.
-but then it can’t start friday because people have work
-and then it can’t start early saturday because people don’t want to drive through the night friday after work to get there
-but then it can’t end late sunday because people have work monday

with all due respect and no offense, there is nothing anyone can do to please the stk/ss community. You all deserve nhra and the **** they put you through.
$350 or $200 to enter
$100 for your wife
3–4-day long events
1 race
but a wally!

See "ya'll" at gainesville!

nailed it!!!!!!!

[Pistol Pete]

Barry
I think an association race like Dave Ley’s race or the ASRA races in D1 are great.

Maybe at either one or both they could have one race that you pay double and that’ll
make for a bigger payout.

One of Dave’s races that used to be at Englishtown was the Bigger payout race.
Now that big money race is at Atco.

The great thing about Ken’s races & why I liked coming up from Florida is:
He Only Ran S/SS cars and it was 2 separate categories, no offense to any other categories.

Another thought is: Since the Dutch Classic is a Big Hit with car counts maybe the weekend
before you can have the S/SS race ?? Providing it doesn’t interfere with MG’s schedule.

Just my 2 cents.

[tstickff]

If you scroll a little lower on the main page here, there is a group of stock/SS associations, I personally have run All Star racing association, and Carolina Class racer Association, the payouts are great, they are fun to attend, low stress, some have heads ups and some don’t. But what I see is that there seems to be something like these associations in each division. Like Tim and Ken have mentioned, you aren’t going to make everyone happy, but maybe we should support these associations more, I can say that each one I have attended get anywhere from 30-50 cars, I can also count a large number of cars or guys who do not attend these races I go to even though they live local, why is that? Who knows but it’s time to support these groups as much as possible before they disappear. Then what would we bitch about?

Tim Stickles

[Mike Pearson]

I think Tyler’s race has the best chance for success. He just needs some good weather and a good weekend. That track is a much better location to attract racers from a wide area. The Numidia location is good for the D1 racers but has limited interest from other division racers. For me it would be at least a 24 hour tow. My limit is about 14 hours. Atlanta would have been a great location but we all know what happened there.
The last few years have been very difficult for all businesses. The Covid crap and then the huge inflation with fuel prices doubled. All this has an effect on peoples ability to travel long distances. I think this has a negative effect on last years Class Racer Nationals.
There is a couple of independent associations that are healthy. CCRA and the East Coast association are both well attended.
I don’t know what the break even number for Ken’s race was last year. Or what the actual count ended up being. Most divisional races struggle to get above 70 cars in each class. To get 100 car fields in each class you have to be able to pull from several different divisions.
The only way to really make any of these private races work is to have sponsors to assist with the cost of the track rental and improve the pay out structure. That way the promoter does not have as much exposure

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

I think Tyler’s race has the best chance for success. He just needs some good weather and a good weekend. That track is a much better location to attract racers from a wide area. The Numidia location is good for the D1 racers but has limited interest from other division racers. For me it would be at least a 24 hour tow. My limit is about 14 hours. Atlanta would have been a great location but we all know what happened there.
The last few years have been very difficult for all businesses. The Covid crap and then the huge inflation with fuel prices doubled. All this has an effect on peoples ability to travel long distances. I think this has a negative effect on last years Class Racer Nationals.
There is a couple of independent associations that are healthy. CCRA and the East Coast association are both well attended.
I don’t know what the break even number for Ken’s race was last year. Or what the actual count ended up being. Most divisional races struggle to get above 70 cars in each class. To get 100 car fields in each class you have to be able to pull from several different divisions.
The only way to really make any of these private races work is to have sponsors to assist with the cost of the track rental and improve the pay out structure. That way the promoter does not have as much exposure

Mike I totally disagree with you. This was not a race for those that needed to travel days to get to. D1,D2,D3 have more than enough cars to support a race like this one. I'd bet we have more Stock and Super Stock racers in those 3 Divisions than the rest of the country. As I stated above we the racers let the race down. No excuses that is it in a nut shell. BP

[Randall Klein]

One thing that appeals to me is cool spring or autumn weather, I think Class Racers Revival in St Louis is in August....ummm
Some may want to take a look at the Midwest Class Racers series (below) 2023 schedule posted
Usually $2000/win ea day(some are 4K) 2 days, one tow; they do combine s/SS

Although in the midwest, Earlville, Iowa (2 events w/National Open) and Eau Claire, WI are not too far west, both have great pit space (flat!)

Eau Claire is owned by a racer and been really renovated,super hook, had about 100 cars last year

The Wally is an attraction, I made a special(colored glass) trophy for the first CRR that could be special keepsake...or somebody commission one that has appeal

just some thoughts

Just an option

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Mike I totally disagree with you. This was not a race for those that needed to travel days to get to. D1,D2,D3 have more than enough cars to support a race like this one. I'd bet we have more Stock and Super Stock racers in those 3 Divisions than the rest of the country. As I stated above we the racers let the race down. No excuses that is it in a nut shell. BP

Barry,
I'm sure that you know, Mike is a Division 2 racer. A long time Division 2 racer. The tough thing about Division 2 is that maybe half of the racers are in southern Georgia, southern Alabama, or Florida, and we know how far south Florida goes. That's the problem with Division 2.


But yes, racers let these races down. Regardless of location.


Here's the deal, the more I think about it, the more that I believe it is true.


A race that cannot yield a wally is apparently never going to compete with one that can, for a large portion of the Stock and Super Stock racers. They're going to drive further for a shot at a wally, on the same weekend, or on a different weekend. For the same or less money.



We ran the SportsNational Open one year, against, if I remember correctly, a rescheduled LODRS in Atlanta. While the SportsNational Open outdrew the Atlanta race, which did poorly, there were a ton of racers, Division 3 racers, who literally drove right past the SportsNational Open at Bowling Green to get to Atlanta. The payout at Bowling Green was the same. It was an NHRA event. As a bonus, NitroPlate paid at least $5000 to win the Saturday night Clay Jones combo.


Independent races apparently cannot compete with the wally, for a lot of Stock and Super Stock racers. Even with more money. Even with a better atmosphere. With better treatment. With more chances to win more money. Apparently, if you beat the exact same 6-8 guys to win a race, the race with the wally means something, the other race doesn't. Regardless of pay. I suppose it is a fact that we all have to learn to live with. There is a large percentage of our group that will literally skip a closer, well funded independent race, on a pretty weekend, to use that money and/or time off, to drive further, to an NHRA race where they're treated as riff raff, and paid less. Sad but true.




The best thing that we can do is understand that fact, and figure out if there is a way that anyone can successfully put on an independent race, or races, and make it financially viable. It's a tough economy, which makes sponsors recalcitrant, or hesitant at best. Without sponsors, who will demand serious car counts, it's impossible. Maybe someone will be willing to answer this question: At $250 to enter, how many racers does it take to make a 2-3 day independent race a better than break even deal?