Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by B Parker

The rules I'm talking about are the cam rules, rocker arm, piston, rod, crank, block, lifter, heads, ect. BP

*Back on the soapbox!

Barry (and anyone else), regarding this list of rule changes that you're talking about, everything that you've brought up here benefited your combo either in a performance, reliability or availability/ affordability way. Realistically, this list pretty much only benefits the Manufacturer's higher performance combos.
How do YOU think that the NHRA should be assigning higher HP ratings to these combos that benefit much more from the changes than the combos that benefit very little if at all? We ARE after all running in an Eliminator with a QUALIFIED field (the premise of this thread IS thinking about Indy!) and it hardly seems "fair" to be giving one combo a distinct advantage over another! We all should be getting the same chance to qualify based on parity and (right now) there is none.
Please, enlighten me.

[B Parker]

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;656483]*Back on the soapbox!

Barry (and anyone else), regarding this list of rule changes that you're talking about, everything that you've brought up here benefited your combo either in a performance, reliability or availability/ affordability way. Realistically, this list pretty much only benefits the Manufacturer's higher performance combos.
How do YOU think that the NHRA should be assigning higher HP ratings to these combos that benefit much more from the changes than the combos that benefit very little if at all? We ARE after all running in an Eliminator with a QUALIFIED field (the premise of this thread IS thinking about Indy!) and it hardly seems "fair" to be giving one combo a distinct advantage over another! We all should be getting the same chance to qualify based on parity and (right now) there is none.
Please, enlighten me.[/QUOTE



H#ll no way Glen. I would like to see no more rule changes for a few years.

Billy the difference in my combo that you like to bring up is the car was offered by GM back in 70. My heads came from GM and so did my intake. Yes they were made by Edelbrock but EdeIbrock bought the rights to them. Way beyond my control. They weren't some aftermarket head and intake that was just put on the list. They both have GM part #'s. I understand what you're saying and I agree with some of it. But if you think my combo is so great, I know where there is a 70 Camaro. Remember I bought the car to begin with even though I didn't really want it. I think it was my quarter rocket. I figure the car cost 20 grand at the most after I sold some of the spare parts it came with. At that price I just couldn't pass it up. Would you have bought it at that price even though it's not your cup of tea? Why don't you get pistons approved for your combo. How fast do you think you could go if you spent some money on it? Sell a couple of those cows. BP

[B Parker]

So Billy, if you think it's only the high HP cars that have benefited from the rules. Build your car to today's rules. Get some pistons and rods approved. Build a 2022 Stocker motor. I bet your sitting on a 1.40 plus under car. The only one that is stopping you from achieving that is you. Don't blame those of us that have. Remember there NHRA's rules not mine nor yours.

You also need to go back and take a look at the aftermarket parts that they allow. I don't think there are many fast small block Chevy's with stock short blocks.

[Doug Hoven]

Originally Posted by B Parker

So Billy, if you think it's only the high HP cars that have benefited from the rules. Build your car to today's rules. Get some pistons and rods approved. Build a 2022 Stocker motor. I bet your sitting on a 1.40 plus under car. The only one that is stopping you from achieving that is you. Don't blame those of us that have. Remember there NHRA's rules not mine nor yours.

You also need to go back and take a look at the aftermarket parts that they allow. I don't think there are many fast small block Chevy's with stock short blocks.

It’s funny that you bring up the “challenge” of bringing one of Billy’s combinations “into 2022.” I’m currently in the process of redoing the engine in the 6 cylinder nova. I pretty much have been doing everything that I have been told as far as using more modern parts. This includes a more modern lobe style cam, rocker and spring combo, and a different ring package. The pistons I left alone being that they are very good quality to begin with, and I’m not sure an aftermarket rod will help a sub 6,500rpm motor. Going to try a good 3 speed as well over the powerglide. The things I have changed have all helped make the higher horsepower cars as fast as they are today. Time will tell if the 6 cylinder will appreciate such parts.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by Doug Hoven

It’s funny that you bring up the “challenge” of bringing one of Billy’s combinations “into 2022.” I’m currently in the process of redoing the engine in the 6 cylinder nova. I pretty much have been doing everything that I have been told as far as using more modern parts. This includes a more modern lobe style cam, rocker and spring combo, and a different ring package. The pistons I left alone being that they are very good quality to begin with, and I’m not sure an aftermarket rod will help a sub 6,500rpm motor. Going to try a good 3 speed as well over the powerglide. The things I have changed have all helped make the higher horsepower cars as fast as they are today. Time will tell if the 6 cylinder will appreciate such parts.

Doug I'm glad to see your taking on this project. It will be interesting to see how much you pick the car up. My thought with the aftermarket rods wasn't so much as the strength but to be able to play with rotating weight. I would think the quicker you can get that car moving the faster you will go. I have a good spare metric, but I use a 350 spline. You should take advantage of a metric converter. Let us all know how you make out. Thanks Barry

[James Perrone]

When I got into this stock eliminator deal I figured … This is just a bracket race
Until I got whooped in a heads up against Tex Miller
Guess what I went to the fastest guy with a nova 350/255
B&B performance That cost me a bunch of $$. Car was not fast
Heads where ported I asked how’s this possible.
Well we push the rules we know this is good. Glen Briglio
Well after that I went to Bub. Asked him for a fast engine.
Bub said no porting. Needed we do it right
Bub said is gonna cost $$.
Guess what. It was fast and legal proven at tear down
Point being just beacaue you have good parts and professional engine builder. Don’t mean your gonna be fast.
I go to a professional to be legal and fast.
Why is this frowned on to make your car as fast as possible with rules given?

Like Barry pointed out. Different strokes for different folks
We all race to go fast … but we do it differently according to rules provided
$$$ and hard work is what it takes.
By the way Tilburg does my motor because I want the best
Like Barry. And you

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by James Perrone

Why is this frowned on to make your car as fast as possible with rules given?

Hey Ponko! I hope this isn't directed at me!

I have a problem with Racers who have a problem with the AHFS rules, following the AHFS rules and complaining when they get caught up in the enforcement of those AHFS rules.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by James Perrone

When I got into this stock eliminator deal I figured … This is just a bracket race
Until I got whooped in a heads up against Tex Miller
Guess what I went to the fastest guy with a nova 350/255
B&B performance That cost me a bunch of $$. Car was not fast
Heads where ported I asked how’s this possible.
Well we push the rules we know this is good. Glen Briglio
Well after that I went to Bub. Asked him for a fast engine.
Bub said no porting. Needed we do it right
Bub said is gonna cost $$.
Guess what. It was fast and legal proven at tear down
Point being just beacaue you have good parts and professional engine builder. Don’t mean your gonna be fast.
I go to a professional to be legal and fast.
Why is this frowned on to make your car as fast as possible with rules given?

Like Barry pointed out. Different strokes for different folks
We all race to go fast … but we do it differently according to rules provided
$$$ and hard work is what it takes.
By the way Tilburg does my motor because I want the best
Like Barry. And you

James, I go to Brian also because of Integrity. I love to race and try to go as fast as I can. I've been torn down at Indy several times all the way back to the Paul Harvey ford days. Been apart at several other places too. Never been tossed. And anyone that has worked on my stuff knows I love to go to Indy and I don't want to have any trouble going through tear down.
And thank you it almost sounds like you gave me a compliment. We were there also when you bought Freds car and you know we would have helped you in any way we could. BP

[Billy Nees]

Barry, how much did all of these modern changes raise the peak RPM potential of your combo? That and the "enhanced" heads and intake is where all of the gains are being made.
Just an FYI, you seem to be assuming that all of my stuff is 30 years old. The Pontiac and the Gold Nova have state-of-the-art short blocks and valvetrains in them.

As for the "modernizing" that Doug is trying out, we'll see.

[B Parker]

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;656529]Barry, how much did all of these modern changes raise the peak RPM potential of your combo? That and the "enhanced" heads and intake is where all of the gains are being made.
Just an FYI, you seem to be assuming that all of my stuff is 30 years old. The Pontiac and the Gold Nova have state-of-the-art short blocks and valvetrains in them.

As for the "modernizing" that Doug is trying out, we'll see. I wish him luck and would like to have come talk to me at a race. I have some cheap things he could try that might help.
Billy the heads and intake are pretty good right from the factory. Not long ago we sleeved a 454 to make the 396's. Now with the use of an aftermarket block it had made more hp. The new rings have helped a bunch. Brian has played with many cam grinds. The carbs are better. It is a combo of everything. I can tell you it's at least 3 tenth quicker than my last big block car. Also, in that time they came out with piston, rod, and ring weighs. A lot of engine builders were able to lighten up the rotating rates based on the new numbers. The tranys and converters are better. I don't know how anyone can look at this and say the AHFS should stay the same. Billy we are going to race our cars the way we both want to, but I'd bet if you had a possible of heads up a couple of times a race you would put more effort and money into go faster. BP

PS Billy I'm going to South Beach on Tuesday how about we call a truce until I get back.