Easy way to help AHFS work

[SS/GSI]

Originally Posted by thomas sheehan

Do you want to see racers qualify with all out runs?
Do you want to make the AHFS system work.
Give the racer a reason to cut her loose!
How about a first round BYE?
Not just for #1..... but how about 1-10 byes in round one?

Do you know anyone that would rather run against someone in round 1 rather than take a BYE run?... (answer is NO)
If someone wants to take a chance that their -.90 run will get them in the top ten (while running their restrictor plate, they take a chance that others will bump them out of the BYE group.
Here's where we use "Out of the box thinking"... NHRA uses a "randomizer" after all qualifying is complete, and then lets everyone know how many bye runs there will be. One week there could be 10, next week 7, next week 5... who knows? Maybe they even guarantee 5 first round byes per race. Then everyone shoots for top 5
Just look at the guys that cut her loose at the end of the year to get #1 spots for nothing more than a first round BYE,10 more points, and not having to run anyone in the dreaded first round! If more people are chasing a first round BYE, more people go fast and make the AHFS work.... "It ain't that hard to do"
REWARDS BRING RESULTS

Tom, I respectfully disagree with everything you and a lot of others have voiced on this forum regarding how to fix the AHFS system. Like most people with an agenda to get "soft" combinations HP, they only have tunnel vision for the FIX but do not see the big picture. Is there under factored combinations, YES!!! Have those competitors played within the rules of NHRA to keep their HP factors down, YES!!! Sorry nobody wants to destroy there combo to be #1 at a nothing divisional or national event!!!

What nobody here is mentioning is how "OLD" combos got HP!!! Class runoffs and rivalries within a specific class. Being the badest B/SA or GT/HA car use to mean something. But now everyone dodges everyone to avoid heads ups in the "eliminator"!!! Given the 30 newly added FS, FSS and FGT classes, manufacturer crate motor GT combos, the dozens of mid "80's & '90"s combinations in STK/SS added in the last decade, stockers running SS, the loss of shipping weights in GT and cars being able to run SS or GT with same combo...all that coupled with class runoffs being cut down by more than half, a Performers Award system that disappeared overnight, lowered quotas at National Events, an annual review period(instead of semi annual) and the price of engines being North of 50k in SS, ya I'm gonna say that getting HP will be nearly impossible moving forward!!!


So instead of trying to MF all the guys with soft combos by adding ridiculous measures on them(ie. checking weight at the scales, restrictor plates, 1000' increments +++) why doesn't the SRAC and the NHRA simply bring back what is proven to work???!!! OHHH and just curious on who will be the mathematician "chosen one" that will figure out everyone's backhalf splits, how fast they "could have gone" with 115#'s out of the car!!! No offense, but I'm not exactly confident in most peoples ability to do simple math.

But keep pounding your personal agendas...just like all the other special interests groups in Canada and the USA, I'm positive that you will get your way!!! If you guys want everyone to be the same...there index classes you can run! STK and SS are performance based classes!

PS: How did that whole AHFS at Indy thing work out for the less than 20% of racers that wanted it!!! That's what I thought...The problem with thinking other people are stupid does not automatically make you smarter than them. IMHO

[1347]

Give points to #1 qualifier, a little competition at getting points along with the bye run may help.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by SS/GSI

Tom, I respectfully disagree with everything you and a lot of others have voiced on this forum regarding how to fix the AHFS system. Like most people with an agenda to get "soft" combinations HP, they only have tunnel vision for the FIX but do not see the big picture. Is there under factored combinations, YES!!! Have those competitors played within the rules of NHRA to keep their HP factors down, YES!!! Sorry nobody wants to destroy there combo to be #1 at a nothing divisional or national event!!!

What nobody here is mentioning is how "OLD" combos got HP!!! Class runoffs and rivalries within a specific class. Being the badest B/SA or GT/HA car use to mean something. But now everyone dodges everyone to avoid heads ups in the "eliminator"!!! Given the 30 newly added FS, FSS and FGT classes, manufacturer crate motor GT combos, the dozens of mid "80's & '90"s combinations in STK/SS added in the last decade, stockers running SS, the loss of shipping weights in GT and cars being able to run SS or GT with same combo...all that coupled with class runoffs being cut down by more than half, a Performers Award system that disappeared overnight, lowered quotas at National Events, an annual review period(instead of semi annual) and the price of engines being North of 50k in SS, ya I'm gonna say that getting HP will be nearly impossible moving forward!!!


So instead of trying to MF all the guys with soft combos by adding ridiculous measures on them(ie. checking weight at the scales, restrictor plates, 1000' increments +++) why doesn't the SRAC and the NHRA simply bring back what is proven to work???!!! OHHH and just curious on who will be the mathematician "chosen one" that will figure out everyone's backhalf splits, how fast they "could have gone" with 115#'s out of the car!!! No offense, but I'm not exactly confident in most peoples ability to do simple math.

But keep pounding your personal agendas...just like all the other special interests groups in Canada and the USA, I'm positive that you will get your way!!! If you guys want everyone to be the same...there index classes you can run! STK and SS are performance based classes!

PS: How did that whole AHFS at Indy thing work out for the less than 20% of racers that wanted it!!! That's what I thought...The problem with thinking other people are stupid does not automatically make you smarter than them. IMHO

Kevin, Where are we going with this? I don't disagree with much of what you said, but what would be your plan?
Tom put forth his. NHRA isn't going to do it, but that's the theme here.

[Charley Downing]

AHFS will never work with its current leadership. Now if Lonnie Grimm cleans house/ eliminates the problem, then it might have a chance but let’s face it AHFS has had the same problems 10-15 plus years now.
1. You can run -1.10 at an event and go to the next event and make 2 passes at -.55 to bring your average back to under-.80 making it safe from HP.
This window to lower your combo average are passes of -.85 to -.35. This window is way to big. I mean how can some make an argument that one weekend a guy runs -1.00 and the next weekend there making runs at below -.60. to pull the average down. There is no logic to this window. Personally, if a combo can run -1.00 then no runs under -.65 should count in lowering the class average

2. I Think the most important thing that will help AHFS work and put NEEDED performance back in the SS/STK class is going to a 48 or 64 car field at ALL National events (But INDY). Let’s face it the national event quotes are not going back to 80 plus cars per class at most national events so let’s just meet in the middle make all the quotes 70 cars per stk and ss. This will make guys step on there cars a little more frequently. I personal would like to see 48 car national event fields with around 60-65 car quotes. This would reward the #1 with the potential semi final bye into the final. I would leave points meet at 128 car fields and national open at all run field. This would create a kind of steppingstone affect for the class depend on you combos performance. This would also eliminate the 105 points Issue for winning a 6 or 7 round national event (East Coast VS West Coast) if all the National events were a 6 round max to win.

3. All runs of over -1.00 should have a min carb/TB check, casting # check and a PG if time permitting.

[GTS340]

I'm old enough unfortunately to remember before the AHFS . One fast run got you hp. Tuff cookies for the others with that combination. I believe NHRA tried to come up with a system that didn't chase the guy or gal out that didn't have the knowledge or the bank roll to keep up. Making a tweak like throw out the mineshaft races and seeing what happens for a year or two could change things. At least something like that. For example the divisional race at Boise this year in stock had 37 cars. 13 were a second or more under and it went mineshaft. So none of those runs mattered. I would have to research to see how many races went mineshaft. Could be very few. It would be a job at this point to add them in now and look at combination averages. Again just a change to one thing and see what happens. Looking under the hood at least for a second under run isn't the end of the world either.

Paul

[Rory McNeil]

I am certainly no expert on how the AHFS was intended to "level the field" with so many classes, but wouldn`t it be nice if any car that ran quick enough to cause a HP increase, was at least given a full teardown to ensure that it was indeed legal at the time of the run?

[Henry S]

There will always be racers to manipulate any system in place for their own benefit, and why wouldn't they. No system is perfect and performance Awards would be nice.

I think an easy way for the AHFS to work is to lower the trigger to -.50 under. This would make it very difficult to bring the average down and protect the combo. I know people will say this only helps the "slugs" but it may also promote new blood into the class as any system should be what is best for the sport not the individual.

These are just my thoughts so flame away

[Ed Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

AHFS will never work with its current leadership. Now if Lonnie Grimm cleans house/ eliminates the problem, then it might have a chance but let’s face it AHFS has had the same problems 10-15 plus years now.
1. You can run -1.10 at an event and go to the next event and make 2 passes at -.55 to bring your average back to under-.80 making it safe from HP.
This window to lower your combo average are passes of -.85 to -.35. This window is way to big. I mean how can some make an argument that one weekend a guy runs -1.00 and the next weekend there making runs at below -.60. to pull the average down. There is no logic to this window. Personally, if a combo can run -1.00 then no runs under -.65 should count in lowering the class average

2. I Think the most important thing that will help AHFS work and put NEEDED performance back in the SS/STK class is going to a 48 or 64 car field at ALL National events (But INDY). Let’s face it the national event quotes are not going back to 80 plus cars per class at most national events so let’s just meet in the middle make all the quotes 70 cars per stk and ss. This will make guys step on there cars a little more frequently. I personal would like to see 48 car national event fields with around 60-65 car quotes. This would reward the #1 with the potential semi final bye into the final. I would leave points meet at 128 car fields and national open at all run field. This would create a kind of steppingstone affect for the class depend on you combos performance. This would also eliminate the 105 points Issue for winning a 6 or 7 round national event (East Coast VS West Coast) if all the National events were a 6 round max to win.

3. All runs of over -1.00 should have a min carb/TB check, casting # check and a PG if time permitting.

All of this is easy. You said someone goes -1.10 under one race then run -.55 under twice to bring average down. All Nhra has to do on those runs is take the 1/8 mile numbers and run them against the -1.10 under run the week before. Doing this would fix a lot of combos in about 6 months.

Disclaimer: I no longer run SS anymore but still like to read all the posts about s/ss. Just my .02

[Glenn Briglio]

Originally Posted by Ed Carpenter

All of this is easy. You said someone goes -1.10 under one race then run -.55 under twice to bring average down. All Nhra has to do on those runs is take the 1/8 mile numbers and run them against the -1.10 under run the week before. Doing this would fix a lot of combos in about 6 months.

Disclaimer: I no longer run SS anymore but still like to read all the posts about s/ss. Just my .02

Ed, Please give me a call today.

[Race Clean]

Originally Posted by Ed Carpenter

All of this is easy. You said someone goes -1.10 under one race then run -.55 under twice to bring average down. All Nhra has to do on those runs is take the 1/8 mile numbers and run them against the -1.10 under run the week before. Doing this would fix a lot of combos in about 6 months.

That wont work!!
They dont run fast to the 1/8 and then lift,they just go slow (on 2 barrels or a stop in the linkage etc.)
Anyone that has been .850 (.950) under or more during the period should not qualify for supplying any runs slower than that to AFHS