stockers

jeff_kovalik · 10-08-2020, 09:55 AM

My two cents...

After many years of bracket racing, watching class racing from the other side of the fence, and helping several friends with their S/SS cars, I was finally able to put together my own (first) stock eliminator car. I stepped in deep, going right to A/SA with a 440 Six Pack Challenger. Most would say that's crazy, but I have gained a lot of knowledge over the years and have great support from many experienced class racers, so I felt that I could put something together that was decent. It has been a struggle to have the rulebook in one hand, a wrench on the other and put a car together that runs under the index. It should not be easy, but it should be possible - by the rules.

The double race (Sportsnats & LODRS) at National Trail Raceway this year was an eye-opener. With the message that Indy would not have class eliminations, it was clearly "the" race to be at because there was possibly no other opportunity to get that always sought after class win. WOW, what a field of cars... it drew the best cars from around the country and they put on a show. I was personally very observant of the Stock eliminators that were in attendance. I was appalled at the some of the blatant visible illegal items on many cars. If some racers are brazen enough to install those parts on their cars, knowing full well they are not legal...it makes you wonder what is inside the engine & trans? I am all for being creative and smart. Testing, testing and more testing of new parts, new settings, moving cams, moving weight, chassis settings... It becomes almost an obsession, and I really enjoy the challenge, but the rulebook is always in arms reach.

This should not be easy...class racing is special, and stock is the most difficult IMO. I have talked to so many people (mostly bracket racers) not familiar with stock and when you explain the rules, they just shake their heads and ask "how???" I love that reaction.

Some have said I'm naive, some have said "it's stock, and nothing is stock", some have said "they all cheat because they never get checked"

None of those statements is acceptable.

We have a rulebook, and the racers that choose to participate in class racing need to have the integrity to follow it. As soon as a racer knowingly makes the decision to put the rulebook aside, they become the problem. NHRA has a process to challenge other racers, and frankly I'm surprised it doesn't get used more often. If I had a fast class car (I don't) and someone paid the fee to have me torn down, I would consider it a compliment. In my eyes, to be fast, protested, and passing tear down, should earn a Wally!

I wish everyone the best, safe racing for all!

Frank Castros · 10-08-2020, 11:10 AM

If blatant disregard for the rule book is easily detected visually then there is a serious problem not only with tech inspection or there lack of, but also the lack of respect and arrogance of the racers themselves.

"Integrity means following your moral or ethical convictions and doing the right thing in all circumstances, even if no one is watching you. Having integrity means you are true to yourself and would do nothing that demeans or dishonors you."

Jeff Swanson · 10-09-2020, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik

I was appalled at the some of the blatant visible illegal items on many cars.

Can you give some examples? Are we talking items like wrong emblems, spoilers, fog lights or something like the wrong carb?

jeff_kovalik · 10-09-2020, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Swanson

Can you give some examples? Are we talking items like wrong emblems, spoilers, fog lights or something like the wrong carb?

This is a slippery slope. I will keep my specific observations to myself, but again, these were items so bad that I honestly laughed out loud a few times. I am not the trim and emblem police, and while I agree those items should be correct per the combination of car claimed, they are not solely responsible for a tenth or two. I only noted items that would result in a performance gain.

Who is ultimately responsible for ensuring these cars are legal?

#1: Is it the racers that police themselves and call people out to the car owner/driver? (That’s a fun conversation)

#2: Or do you report illegal things to the proper NHRA official at the race?

#3: Both?

Some would not be comfortable with #1, but some certainly will when your exact combo is the one affected. #2 is fairly easy and could be done anonymously enough to not create conflict if so desired.

Frank Castros · 10-09-2020, 10:07 AM

https://classracer.com/classforum/at...1&d=1602252356

e vassar · 10-09-2020, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik

This is a slippery slope. I will keep my specific observations to myself, but again, these were items so bad that I honestly laughed out loud a few times. I am not the trim and emblem police, and while I agree those items should be correct per the combination of car claimed, they are not solely responsible for a tenth or two. I only noted items that would result in a performance gain.

Who is ultimately responsible for ensuring these cars are legal?

#1: Is it the racers that police themselves and call people out to the car owner/driver? (That’s a fun conversation)

#2: Or do you report illegal things to the proper NHRA official at the race?

#3: Both?

Some would not be comfortable with #1, but some certainly will when your exact combo is the one affected. #2 is fairly easy and could be done anonymously enough to not create conflict if so desired.

IMO ..we have a group of the most knowledgeable and experienced drivers and class car builders ever assembled right here
So if you're going to accuse people or a whole group of people of cheating, you should list these items here and let the group address them.
Otherwise your just wasting bandwidth.

MR DERBY CITY · 10-09-2020, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e vassar

IMO ..we have a group of the most knowledgeable and experienced drivers and class car builders ever assembled right here
So if you're going to accuse people or a whole group of people of cheating, you should list these items here and let the group address them.
Otherwise your just wasting bandwidth.

Ok, I ll bite......you have a bunch of NEWBIES that don’t know OR understand all the rules in stock Eliminator....I had a phone conversation with a SEASONED racer yesterday. He was at the Reynolds open walking through the pits and saw a crank trigger on a stocker.......WTF ?????? Of course TECH is done online as a result of the CHINESE VIRUS so that adds to the fact that many of these new racers are not getting looked at....
I have raced forever and I don’t even know the CURRENT rule on e shift, air shift, electric shift....I have heard some FSS Stockers and even some CARB Stockers have assistance shifting their trans....I do know that e shift is legal on efi combos.....

GUMP · 10-09-2020, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY

.....saw a crank trigger on a stocker.....

Depends on the car. It is legal on a 1992-98 LT motor.

MR DERBY CITY · 10-09-2020, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUMP

Depends on the car. It is legal on a 1992-98 LT motor.

Wrong answer,.....It wasn’t a 92-98 LT motor....It wasn’t a 350 cubic inch motor.....

jeff_kovalik · 10-09-2020, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e vassar

IMO ..we have a group of the most knowledgeable and experienced drivers and class car builders ever assembled right here
So if you're going to accuse people or a whole group of people of cheating, you should list these items here and let the group address them.
Otherwise your just wasting bandwidth.

I accused no one of anything. I (and others with me) did observe a decent amount of items that are not legal according to the rules in the Stock Eliminator section of the current NHRA rule book.

That’s the truth and I have the right to share that on this site as a part of this tread that I did not start.

10-09-2020, 10:07 AM	#5
Frank Castros VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Lowcountry. Posts: 2,982 Likes: 2,605 Liked 2,737 Times in 965 Posts	Re: stockers https://classracer.com/classforum/at...1&d=1602252356 Last edited by Frank Castros; 01-25-2022 at 02:59 PM.

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10-08-2020, 09:55 AM	#1
jeff_kovalik Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Ohio Posts: 55 Likes: 307 Liked 186 Times in 30 Posts	Re: stockers My two cents... After many years of bracket racing, watching class racing from the other side of the fence, and helping several friends with their S/SS cars, I was finally able to put together my own (first) stock eliminator car. I stepped in deep, going right to A/SA with a 440 Six Pack Challenger. Most would say that's crazy, but I have gained a lot of knowledge over the years and have great support from many experienced class racers, so I felt that I could put something together that was decent. It has been a struggle to have the rulebook in one hand, a wrench on the other and put a car together that runs under the index. It should not be easy, but it should be possible - by the rules. The double race (Sportsnats & LODRS) at National Trail Raceway this year was an eye-opener. With the message that Indy would not have class eliminations, it was clearly "the" race to be at because there was possibly no other opportunity to get that always sought after class win. WOW, what a field of cars... it drew the best cars from around the country and they put on a show. I was personally very observant of the Stock eliminators that were in attendance. I was appalled at the some of the blatant visible illegal items on many cars. If some racers are brazen enough to install those parts on their cars, knowing full well they are not legal...it makes you wonder what is inside the engine & trans? I am all for being creative and smart. Testing, testing and more testing of new parts, new settings, moving cams, moving weight, chassis settings... It becomes almost an obsession, and I really enjoy the challenge, but the rulebook is always in arms reach. This should not be easy...class racing is special, and stock is the most difficult IMO. I have talked to so many people (mostly bracket racers) not familiar with stock and when you explain the rules, they just shake their heads and ask "how???" I love that reaction. Some have said I'm naive, some have said "it's stock, and nothing is stock", some have said "they all cheat because they never get checked" None of those statements is acceptable. We have a rulebook, and the racers that choose to participate in class racing need to have the integrity to follow it. As soon as a racer knowingly makes the decision to put the rulebook aside, they become the problem. NHRA has a process to challenge other racers, and frankly I'm surprised it doesn't get used more often. If I had a fast class car (I don't) and someone paid the fee to have me torn down, I would consider it a compliment. In my eyes, to be fast, protested, and passing tear down, should earn a Wally! I wish everyone the best, safe racing for all!

10-08-2020, 11:10 AM	#2
Frank Castros VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Lowcountry. Posts: 2,982 Likes: 2,605 Liked 2,737 Times in 965 Posts	Re: stockers If blatant disregard for the rule book is easily detected visually then there is a serious problem not only with tech inspection or there lack of, but also the lack of respect and arrogance of the racers themselves. "Integrity means following your moral or ethical convictions and doing the right thing in all circumstances, even if no one is watching you. Having integrity means you are true to yourself and would do nothing that demeans or dishonors you."