Question on SS/AH & AH/SM

[Andrew Hill]

According to Nitro Joe's stats, only 3 classes have had more participation in comp this year than AH/SM so far, B/DA (11 cars), C/DA (7), and A/EA (7). Five others have had the same amount of cars as AH/SM (5), C/SM, G/AA, C/A, AA/AM, and C/ED.

The best run has been Bucky Hess with a -0.31 8.44 at Reading, put him #27 out of 31 cars and the last car that actually ran under the index in qualifying. A 9.00 index would have made him #16 at -0.56 under, and a 9.05 index would have made him #9 at -0.61 under.

In 2018, the max number of comp cars in any class was B/DA with 13. SS/AH had 38 cars run in 2018. 2017 was 18 B/DA cars, 36 SS/AH. 2016 17 B/DA, 32 SS/AH.2016 12 B/DA, 39 SS/AH. So it appears that there has been significantly more participation in SS/AH than any single comp class for the last several years. A number of these entries are not competitive with the fast guys, but I believe there have been quite a few different cars and engine builders running ETs near the top over the years.

The comparison was brought up between AH/SM and the other SM classes. An A/SMA is 400 in at 2750 lb, once you factor the 250 lb reduction for an automatic, that's 6.875 lb/in. An AH/SM would be 150 lb lighter at 6.875 lb/in than at 7.2 lb/in. So you take the 8.53 A/SMA index and add 0.15 for the weight (maybe a hundredth or two less?) you get 8.68, only 0.07 faster than the current AH/SM index. Does anybody really think all of the stuff you can do in the base SM classes over a Hemi car is worth that little?

Comp needs more cars and a lot of the guys with SS/AH cars like to run them flat out all the time, comp is a great place for that. It's tough to show up at a race with the mindset that you have one of the fastest cars in your class (that's had a ton of rich and talented guys run it over the years) and you probably don't have a chance in hell of winning a round, much less the race.

Just my 2 cents as a comp fan who that would love to run the class someday, hopefully sooner rather than later.

[Spyphish]

Sure it is a highly refined combo, so are the other cars that run .35 under. It's hard not to see it as a bunch of rich guys that think they have spent enough money and deserve a "good index".


SIR, that is EX rich guys. I will sell mine "on the hoof" at Indy. CHEAP

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hill

The comparison was brought up between AH/SM and the other SM classes. An A/SMA is 400 in at 2750 lb, once you factor the 250 lb reduction for an automatic, that's 6.875 lb/in. An AH/SM would be 150 lb lighter at 6.875 lb/in than at 7.2 lb/in. So you take the 8.53 A/SMA index and add 0.15 for the weight (maybe a hundredth or two less?) you get 8.68, only 0.07 faster than the current AH/SM index. Does anybody really think all of the stuff you can do in the base SM classes over a Hemi car is worth that little?

I'm catching some grief, it's okay because I actually agree that the index needs adjustment. I do react poorly to pushback and need to be mindful of how it affects others.

Just for grins, lets pretend I own a Super Stock Modified Cobalt and I'm exploring moving to Comp. I would do a quick comparison of classes between Comp and Super Stock with virtually identical weight breaks and rules.


Lbs/ci_____SS class-Index____Comp class-Index_____Change+/-
7.5________SS/AM--9.00______A/SM--8.45_________-.55


8.5________SS/BM--9.20______B/SM--8.66_________ -.54



9.5________SS/CM--9.50______E/SM--9.10_________ -.40


10.5_______SS/DM--9.75______G/SM--9.33_________ -.42


So, if we look at Hemi cars:

7.2________SS/AH--9.60______AH/SM--8.75_________-.85
Lets try 9.05:
7.2________SS/AH--9,60______AH/SM--(9.05)________-.65


On it's face this makes 9.05 look like a number that didn't get pulled out of thin air. But we need to consider the SS/AH index could be a little "soft" compared to SS Modified. How far under in Super Stock do the typical SS Modified cars qualify versus SS/AH. That will define how "soft" the relative indexes might be.

Andrew, you mentioned the Nitro Joe Stats, Five cars in AH/SM. All at national events? That's 5 races with Hemi cars, or five different cars at races?
So, what does a SS/AH racer do? Tough call. Show up in Comp and hope you get past first round and run all out, or run Super Stock and try to try to run a dial in for more rounds?

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Tom Broome

Andrew, you mentioned the Nitro Joe Stats, Five cars in AH/SM. All at national events? That's 5 races with Hemi cars, or five different cars at races?

Five cars at 4 different races. Nitro Joes stats shows each racer’s best run, so I’m not sure if any of those 5 cars have run multiple races, but I’m pretty sure some have.

Imo, I think Bucky Hess and Gary Wolkwitz (top 2 Hemi cars in AH/SM this year) have probably put as much time and money into their combos as anyone in any class in comp. if they aren’t competitive with the current index, who will be?

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hill

Five cars at 4 different races. Nitro Joes stats shows each racer’s best run, so I’m not sure if any of those 5 cars have run multiple races, but I’m pretty sure some have.

Imo, I think Bucky Hess and Gary Wolkwitz (top 2 Hemi cars in AH/SM this year) have probably put as much time and money into their combos as anyone in any class in comp. if they aren’t competitive with the current index, who will be?

I'm gonna' need a flame suit in a second.

Hasn't the class stagnated some without the Wescott's? Did the record go to minimum and get reset slower? If I'm not mistaken SS/AH runs the same weight with or without an auto transmission. Are Hess and Wolkwitz running stick or auto? If auto, could the sticks be faster?