New Rule Revision For Stock and S/S

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Travis Miller

This thread was not meant to be a joke. I originally posted it to give racers a heads up about the new rule revision that had to do with Stock and S/S interiors. But I see that was a waste of time so in the future instead of letting racers know about something that will effect them, I guess they will have to find out on their own. And I will not take up any more of your time.

Travis I also thank you for your post, but to Steve's comment about 6pt roll bars in all Stock/Super Stockers, I hope you all leave the current rules for that as they are, and as Dwight said anyone can put a roll bar in their car if they choose. My car is already 60-80lbs heavy with all of the legal weight removed. My rear seat stays, because a 4pt bar would be heavier than it.

Steve, if you want to add a 6pt roll bar to your car go for it, as Dwight mentioned. I am more concerned with driving around 18 wheelers on the highway, than being chased by an 8 second stocker. If their car stays tight and the track is prepped right, they should stay in their own lane as I would mine barring any unforseen situations.

Travis what I would rather see, is not just what Mark suggested, or those who spoke about the unqualified FS/XX cars run in Comp or even Super Stock, but that NHRA would bring back FF/S, and allow the Current EF/S cars two run in the slower class with their current index. Then allow V6 cars (like mine) another class to move down to, that would have a more favorable minimum weight/index. There originally was 16 classes A-H for fwd stockers, and that was hatched down to 5 (6 once the Supercharged Cobalts and Neon SRT's were made). I vote for adding FF and GF/S back, and leaving roll bar rules as they are! My .02

Bottom line Travis, I thank you for your news on the seat rule, and I will likely keep my stock seats, but I will certainly compliment my driver's seat, with an equal passenger side seat if I get to that point of replacing them....

[Dean Feiock]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

My car is already 60-80lbs heavy with all of the legal weight removed.

I will likely keep my stock seats, but I will certainly compliment my driver's seat, with an equal passenger side seat if I get to that point of replacing them....

These two sentences contradict each other. You do not have "all the legal weight removed" if you are still carrying around factory seats.

Perhaps there is more "legal weight" to remove that you have not found yet?

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Dean Feiock

These two sentences contradict each other. You do not have "all the legal weight removed" if you are still carrying around factory seats.

Perhaps there is more "legal weight" to remove that you have not found yet?

That is true as long as you're including the seats, but I'm talking about other parts of my car. Some day when I gain some more non-racing funding, I'll look into the cost/installation of those seats (now that I know I'd have to replace both of them if I replace one), but now isn't that time. Since my car is competitive as it is, I'm in no hurry, but the truth of it being that much overweight is such for now.

[The Hawk]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

That is true as long as you're including the seats, but I'm talking about other parts of my car. Some day when I gain some more non-racing funding, I'll look into the cost/installation of those seats (now that I know I'd have to replace both of them if I replace one), but now isn't that time. Since my car is competitive as it is, I'm in no hurry, but the truth of it being that much overweight is such for now.

Maybe write another letter for HP reduction?

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by The Hawk

Maybe write another letter for HP reduction?

Thanks Lane, but since they dropped the fwd stocker classes from 16 to 5, and only added a new class at the top AAF/S, the only thing that will help my cause (short of my winning a five digit $20k + Publishers Clearing House prize), is the return of EF/S to V6 racers, by also bringing FF/S back for 4cyl stockers.

I hope Travis reads this, and brings it up with his fellow rules makers. Just like with humans, adding weight to a car is easier and less expensive, than losing weight is (especially since nobody makes 20" slicks for 14" wheels anymore also).

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by The Hawk

Maybe write another letter for HP reduction?

Thanks Lane, but since they dropped the fwd stocker classes from 16 to 5, and only added a new class at the top AAF/S, the only thing that will help my cause (short of my winning a five digit $20k + Publishers Clearing House prize), is the return of EF/S to V6 racers, by also bringing FF/S back for 4cyl stockers.

I hope Travis reads this, and brings it up with his fellow rules makers. Just like with humans, adding weight to a car is easier and less expensive, than losing weight is.

[GarysZ24]

Hi Lane,

I (thanks to a post about the IHRA), just realized another thing that would help me and many other racers with regards to the "Stock/Super Stock Slow Averages". I wish NHRA would revert back to the Stock/Super Stock altitude correction factors they used prior to the change they made several years ago. The harder factor they've used since the early part of this decade (plus dropping all Stock/Super Stock indexes .3sec), made (for example) the Bandimere Speedway index for DF/S drop from 17.14 to 16.59! I don't remember why this was done, and maybe Travis can shed some light on why those changes were made, but I hope those changes will be reversed given the added fwd stocker class(es) on the lower end will likely not happen....this probably won't either, but I hope there are many more racers besides me who struggle with the indexes at altitude tracks, that'll give NHRA just cause to reconsider their changes from either earlier this decade, or the previous one?

[Dean Feiock]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

That is true as long as you're including the seats, but I'm talking about other parts of my car. Some day when I gain some more non-racing funding, I'll look into the cost/installation of those seats (now that I know I'd have to replace both of them if I replace one), but now isn't that time. Since my car is competitive as it is, I'm in no hurry, but the truth of it being that much overweight is such for now.

So in your previous post you state that you can't be competitive. And you state it's because you have done every thing legal to remove weight from your car and you are still 60-80 lbs heavy. But now you say your car is competitive as it is...your words.

So I gotta ask, is your car competitive or not?

If it's competitive, why did you extend this thread by 3 more posts, complaining about the class reductions and index reductions? Why would it matter if you are truely competitive, like you stated?

If you are not competitive, maybe weight removal would be a good place to start. A seat upgrade would certainly remove weight. Removing those factory cast aluminum wheels would certainly remove a bunch of weight also (static and rotating). AND...a big side benefit to that would be you could switch to a front wheel size more compatable with slicks...as I see you raised the issue of 14" slicks in a previous post. AND you could switch to a skinny rear wheel for less drag. Maybe replacing the factory carpet / pad with air craft carpet would save you a bunch. Of course, with all the rules revisions, I'm sure there is some HP to be had with an engine freshen. Have you freshened the engine in the last 10 years?

Just trying to figure out where your program really stands. Because your posts almost come across as your not willing to spend any money on your car, and that you feel slighted by the rule changes because you feel they made you not competitive.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Dean Feiock

So in your previous post you state that you can't be competitive. And you state it's because you have done every thing legal to remove weight from your car and you are still 60-80 lbs heavy. But now you say your car is competitive as it is...your words.

So I gotta ask, is your car competitive or not?

If it's competitive, why did you extend this thread by 3 more posts, complaining about the class reductions and index reductions? Why would it matter if you are truely competitive, like you stated?

If you are not competitive, maybe weight removal would be a good place to start. A seat upgrade would certainly remove weight. Removing those factory cast aluminum wheels would certainly remove a bunch of weight also (static and rotating). AND...a big side benefit to that would be you could switch to a front wheel size more compatable with slicks...as I see you raised the issue of 14" slicks in a previous post. AND you could switch to a skinny rear wheel for less drag. Maybe replacing the factory carpet / pad with air craft carpet would save you a bunch. Of course, with all the rules revisions, I'm sure there is some HP to be had with an engine freshen. Have you freshened the engine in the last 10 years?

Just trying to figure out where your program really stands. Because your posts almost come across as your not willing to spend any money on your car, and that you feel slighted by the rule changes because you feel they made you not competitive.

Hello Dean, since you put this post in here along with the things I said I did some research in not only my cars past, but in the class/category as well, so here are my replies to you:

1. I re-read my posts, and I never said my car "can't be competitive", I said things like "besides me who struggle with the indexes at altitude tracks", and "the only thing that will help my cause".

2. My car IS competitive, but with the change in the altitude correction factor (from a factor that was more justly made for Stock/Super Stock, to the Super Class factors), and the lower (harder) index change from 2009, and 2010, it's harder to be competitive at altitude tracks (mainly Bandimere Speedway), than it used to be. My friend Randy Hyman's Citation offered proof of the difference from 2009 and 2010. in 2010 the DF/S index was 15.60 at sea level and his car ran a 15.350 that was -0.250 under his index at Heartland Park Topeka. However, at Bandimere Speedway that same year, the DF/S factor was 16.82, and he ran a 16.511 that was -0.309 under the index. that was a fair altitude corrected index. In 2009 the sea level index was 15.90, which made the Bandimere index 17.14! Fast forward to last year and my car and you'll see that at the 2016 Winternationals, I ran runs of 15.016 and 15.02 on the (as of 2010 DF/S index of 15.60). However, at Bandimere's thanks to the changed correction factor, I had to run against a 16.59 index, instead of the former 16.82 index (post the .3 taken off first). My best run was a 16.525, which was only 0.065 under the index! It would've helped my cause if the correction factor would've been left as it was prior to 2009 because I would've been running against a more justified 16.82 index. Even better would've been keeping the indexes as they were so I would've been running against the 17.14 second index of 2009! Our cars don't have gadgets in them that can adjust for altitude like the Super Class cars do, so why was our correction factors made like theirs, was my comment!

3. As far as freshining my engine, let me remind you that my car ran its best number ever at Wild Horse Pass Motorsports Park this year with a 15.16, with an engine that's 21yrs old! My engine proved that freshening it isn't needed, or it would've been slower than the 2008 15.24 et it ran then! Obviouslly Verle Steven's and Dave Lockridge were pretty sharp with the prep of my engine, or it wouldn't have lasted this long and still be competitive.

4. When's the last time you saw my car Dean? I haven't been using my factory cast aluminum wheels since nearly 2011! Furthermore you were talking about "14" slicks" (your words), I said 14" wheels! They don't make slicks that'll fit them anymore!

5. You were questioning me about my comments, I would like to know where is your car? I looked and don't see any races you partook in, in recent years but you want to chastise me?

6. You offered some nice ideals for being more competitive, but do you have the money to pay for them? I recall saying I don't yet have the non-racing budget for those things, but someday I will. I feel making the most of what I have, and staying in the action of supporting the LODRS, is more important than spending money not yet available for that is!

All kinds of changes in Stock have mainly benefited the faster rwd cars, how about a change that'll benefit all stockers, and especially the low-buck racers?