Manual trans only?

[rawhide]

Originally Posted by Greg Reimer 7376

Bob,you would know! I guess it's not an across the board rule. Incidentally, I read that around 20 of the original Thunderbolts had the big Lincoln cast iron 3 speed automatics that were out there prior to the C-6. Must have really enhanced overall vehicle weight.

I have always read that more Thunderbolts had automatics than four speeds. Most of them were switched over to four speeds pretty fast I would guess. Jody will wander in here and set it right soon I guess.

Roland

[Stephen & Horace Johnson]

Originally Posted by rawhide

I have always read that more Thunderbolts had automatics than four speeds. Most of them were switched over to four speeds pretty fast I would guess. Jody will wander in here and set it right soon I guess.

Roland

Yep you are correct!!!

[SStockDart]

Originally Posted by Stephen & Horace Johnson

Yep you are correct!!!

Sorry for getting off track here. You are right and I am wrong...never too old to learn something. In 1964, Thunderbolt produced 51 automatics and 49 4 speeds.

[tommy d]

This is a great thread !

[Stephen & Horace Johnson]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

Sorry for getting off track here. You are right and I am wrong...never too old to learn something. In 1964, Thunderbolt produced 51 automatics and 49 4 speeds.

No prob sir!!

[Greg Reimer 7376]

Ford, once calling itself the Ford Family of Fine Cars, had a problem of parts interchangeability among engine families, trans groupings, and the like that knew no bounds, going all the way back to the 1950's.About the only fairly standardized unit was the 9 inch rear end, going all the way back.You Fordophiles would know way more about all this that I do, but within engine families, there are enough variations to drive you nuts. Doing an engine for my brother's 64 Falcon Sprint was a disaster. He made the classic mistake of putting an open plenum hi rise intake on his 260 with a big Holley, which was some improvement over the 2 barrel, but that carb was way too big for that motor. Add to that, a screw dropped out of the throttle body to the float bowl, and the engine ate the screw, some pistons, and cracked a cylinder wall. We decided to rebuild the motor, so out it came. He located a 289 block, missing one main cap, pretty cheaply. No cracks, it cleaned up at .030", but we needed to find a main cap and get it line bored and honed. More money. The cheap block wasn't so cheap. We used the 260 crank and rods, flat top 289 pistons, and had that balanced. I don't know what all had to come off the pistons, but I don't remember that being a problem. I assembled the short block, he got some 289 heads, and a cam,lifter and whatever else kit. I did the heads at school, took them home, we bolted the whole thing together and I installed the engine. When I put the steel stamped plate on the back of the block, lo and behold, wrong bolt pattern. He got a Lakewood scatter shield, block plate and all, I installed that. We couldn't have used a 66 Fairlane bell housing because the factory trans was a top loader, we had an iron BW T-10. That would have fit the block,but not the trans, hence the scatter shield. I got it all together, installed the starter, and upon attempting to start it, it cranked, but made a nasty,nasty noise while spinning the motor.Seemed that the 164 or so toothed Falcon 260 flywheel was about 4 teeth too small, a '66 Fairlane 289 4 speed flywheel was the right thing. Out came the trans(again),off came the scattershield, off came the flywheel, on went the new slightly larger unit, and we didn't get too far before we learned the Falcon pressure plate didn't bolt to the Fairlane flywheel. Too small. Off to the clutch shop, got the correct pressure plate, but had to use the slightly smaller Falcon clutch disc. T-10 and Top Loader had a different spline. Got this whole mess together, finished final assembly on everything, actually drove the Falcon,timed and adjusted everything,and when we were sitting at a signal, it was in first gear, I had my foot on the clutch, suddenly the clutch pedal hit the floor as I felt something break,and the car lurched forward,killing the engine. Fortunately, no one in front of us. The Z bar from the frame to the block broke. Got the car home, he went to the Ford dealer again, ordered a new Z bar. When I looked at it, I could see how it broke. It was pretty light duty. We took it to a welding shop, the guy there gusseted it, in it went, the Falcon was working!!! It was a real test of our patience, fortunately parts cost a lot less then than they do now. That was a lesson on engine rebuilding and adaptability you didn't find in a college auto shop manual. He should have bought a 66 Nova 283 4 speed instead of that Falcon Sprint.Hindsight,again,to the rescue,just not in time.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by rawhide

I have always read that more Thunderbolts had automatics than four speeds. Most of them were switched over to four speeds pretty fast I would guess. Jody will wander in here and set it right soon I guess.

Roland

That's right, IIRC MORE than half of the 1964 Thunderbolts came with the HX Lincoln auto trans, but many or most were swapped back to a 4speed. About half of the 63-64 Lightweight Galaxies (LWG, 427 LoRiser in 63, 427 HiRiser in 64) came with the Lincoln HX auto trans. Some of these were kept and did well in AA/SA.


So for 63-64, the Thunderbolt and LWG came with autos so NHRA accepts it. But there were less than 400 of those cars if you count them all. Not really "production" and I don't think you could order and get one unless you knew somebody and were a racer. But in spite of that, NHRA lets ANY 427 Galaxie run an auto trans, even though they didn't come that way in regular production cars (ie steel Galaxies) in 64-64.


We just had a big debate about this on fordfe.com and the consensus is that these cars (Thunderbolts and 63-64 LWG) were the ONLY time the solid-lifter 427 came with an auto trans.

As far as 65-up cars, and the 66-67 Fairlane/Comets:
The consensus though is that Ford did build 2 prototype 67 Fairlane 427 auto cars. But more importantly, Ford apparently LISTED the auto trans but never built any that way, and that maybe why NHRA accepts it.


http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182...+%28UPDATED%29


http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182...8/427+Fairlane

I don't think the Boss 302 or Boss 351 were ever even LISTED with the auto-trans (maybe because smog standards had begun?) so NHRA would not accept them.


That's the key I think - what did the manufacturer LIST in the paperwork they gave to NHRA? It doesn't mean they had to make or sell any of them. Usually. It confuses me too.


As far as the 396/L78, NHRA lists it as legal with auto trans for the 68 Nova, but not the 68 Chevelle or 68 Camaro. Go figure.


I would be surprised if the 327/275 was a manual only combo, that sounds strange but I will look, NHRA has all that stuff on line you know.


Dwight, Greg at al, sorry I was typing too late at night, and my photographic memory (NOT) remembered 325 and 275 as the same thing, DUH.

[troublemaker427]

Originally Posted by rawhide

I have always read that more Thunderbolts had automatics than four speeds. Most of them were switched over to four speeds pretty fast I would guess. Jody will wander in here and set it right soon I guess.

Roland

Yup, your correct sir!! More autos than sticks in the 1964 Thunderbolts. DST did offer a auto to stick conversion kit because those big heavy Lincoln transmissions sucked pretty bad....