Modified Stock and MX - Page 3

Bobby DiDomenico · 11-13-2015, 03:10 PM

[QUOTE=Jim Caughlin;487819]
Before I get too far into the Focus project, I need to complete a tube chassis for a SS/DX Honda Civic with an S2000 motor for a friend. It should be ready to race for this coming season, pretty slick little car.]

Is that the same motor as in Bales screamer?

Jim Caughlin · 11-13-2015, 04:15 PM

Same type of motor, killer design and pretty much a race motor even in stock form. A stock naturally aspirated motor makes 2 hp / cubic inch at a woping 9000 rpm so you can imagine it's potential. Josh Lee runs this motor in Comp (naturally aspirated) and you might note that he is #1 qualifier at Pomona.

Regarding 4 cylinder engines, I was intending to use the Mercury 4 cylinder (half of a 460 Ford) motor for the SS/CX car but got vetoed by NHRA. It is legal for Comp Altered only, not legal for Comp Econo classes and/or SS. I'm sticking with my 2.3 OHC motors, good motor but I think the Merc might have been better.

Jim Caughlin

rawhide · 11-13-2015, 05:34 PM

would the Tempo/Topaz 2.3L pushrod engine be legal with a cut down Australian head from the 250 AU six?
thanks, Roland

Jim Caughlin · 11-13-2015, 07:01 PM

Probably would be legal but kind of a stretch. The block & head have to have an OEM part number and the engine type had to be available in a production automobile but you can cut and hack to your hearts content from there. There have been other instances of parts from outside of North America being used as long as it is OEM. I would sure be checking on this with NHRA before I went too far though.

Dick Butler · 11-13-2015, 07:32 PM

Jim, I do not know you but must respect your information. Obviously you have investigated the motors of your area of interest. Good Luck to you. Thanks for your comments.

rawhide · 11-14-2015, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Caughlin

Probably would be legal but kind of a stretch. The block & head have to have an OEM part number and the engine type had to be available in a production automobile but you can cut and hack to your hearts content from there. There have been other instances of parts from outside of North America being used as long as it is OEM. I would sure be checking on this with NHRA before I went too far though.

Jim,

I purchased the head from AK Miller many years ago. He cut one cylinder off each end of the head and welded a plate to each end. His customer then lost interest in the project so AK shelved it and when I was buying something else from him he told me about it so I purchased it because the price was cheap. It has a Ford casting number on it. They look similar to a Cleveland head. The bore spacing and head bolt pattern are the same as the Tempo 2.3L block.

Roland

Jim Caughlin · 11-16-2015, 04:03 PM

Roland,

The fine point in the rule book is SS/MX states 'automobile engine' whereas the Comp Altered rules says ' automobile type engine'. That's why the Merc motor isn't legal as it is actually a marine motor and wasn't ever installed in a car. My opinion is that what you are proposing would be legal as the 2.3 pushrod shortblock is a production auto motor, the fact that the head wasn't orig intended for that motor doesn't seem to me to be an issue, it does have a Ford part number in spite of the extent of the mods.

The other motor that I don't think is legal for SS is the Fontana 4 cylinder motor with a Yates Cleveland type head. As Ford didn't have a viable pushrod shortblock, they had a Chevy II block recast by Fontana with a Ford head bolt pattern, Ford logo and a Ford part number. Instant Ford motor! Once again, legal for Comp Altered, not legal for SS.

Jim Caughlin

Dick Butler · 11-17-2015, 10:25 AM

Jim, With all the investigation and research on all the small motors what do you believe is your driving force? Research? Building one of the cars to prove it works?
If your car is "fast" in your opinion when it is done, how will it be judged? Do you just believe it is fast? based on previous motors you built? Without many competitors of your skill in your class, what is the standard against which you compare?
Obviously you are very well informed and dedicated. My own stimulus was to be the class winner over multiple experienced racers with the same or similar combinations.

11-13-2015, 03:10 PM	#21
Bobby DiDomenico Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 923 Likes: 101 Liked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Re: Modified Stock and MX [QUOTE=Jim Caughlin;487819] Before I get too far into the Focus project, I need to complete a tube chassis for a SS/DX Honda Civic with an S2000 motor for a friend. It should be ready to race for this coming season, pretty slick little car.] Is that the same motor as in Bales screamer?

11-13-2015, 04:15 PM	#22
Jim Caughlin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Woodburn, Or Posts: 683 Likes: 82 Liked 801 Times in 244 Posts	Re: Modified Stock and MX Same type of motor, killer design and pretty much a race motor even in stock form. A stock naturally aspirated motor makes 2 hp / cubic inch at a woping 9000 rpm so you can imagine it's potential. Josh Lee runs this motor in Comp (naturally aspirated) and you might note that he is #1 qualifier at Pomona. Regarding 4 cylinder engines, I was intending to use the Mercury 4 cylinder (half of a 460 Ford) motor for the SS/CX car but got vetoed by NHRA. It is legal for Comp Altered only, not legal for Comp Econo classes and/or SS. I'm sticking with my 2.3 OHC motors, good motor but I think the Merc might have been better. Jim Caughlin

11-13-2015, 05:34 PM	#23
rawhide Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 270 Likes: 1 Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Modified Stock and MX would the Tempo/Topaz 2.3L pushrod engine be legal with a cut down Australian head from the 250 AU six? thanks, Roland

11-13-2015, 07:01 PM	#24
Jim Caughlin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Woodburn, Or Posts: 683 Likes: 82 Liked 801 Times in 244 Posts	Re: Modified Stock and MX Probably would be legal but kind of a stretch. The block & head have to have an OEM part number and the engine type had to be available in a production automobile but you can cut and hack to your hearts content from there. There have been other instances of parts from outside of North America being used as long as it is OEM. I would sure be checking on this with NHRA before I went too far though.

11-13-2015, 07:32 PM	#25
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Modified Stock and MX Jim, I do not know you but must respect your information. Obviously you have investigated the motors of your area of interest. Good Luck to you. Thanks for your comments.

11-16-2015, 04:03 PM	#27
Jim Caughlin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Woodburn, Or Posts: 683 Likes: 82 Liked 801 Times in 244 Posts	Re: Modified Stock and MX Roland, The fine point in the rule book is SS/MX states 'automobile engine' whereas the Comp Altered rules says ' automobile type engine'. That's why the Merc motor isn't legal as it is actually a marine motor and wasn't ever installed in a car. My opinion is that what you are proposing would be legal as the 2.3 pushrod shortblock is a production auto motor, the fact that the head wasn't orig intended for that motor doesn't seem to me to be an issue, it does have a Ford part number in spite of the extent of the mods. The other motor that I don't think is legal for SS is the Fontana 4 cylinder motor with a Yates Cleveland type head. As Ford didn't have a viable pushrod shortblock, they had a Chevy II block recast by Fontana with a Ford head bolt pattern, Ford logo and a Ford part number. Instant Ford motor! Once again, legal for Comp Altered, not legal for SS. Jim Caughlin

11-17-2015, 10:25 AM	#28
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Modified Stock and MX Jim, With all the investigation and research on all the small motors what do you believe is your driving force? Research? Building one of the cars to prove it works? If your car is "fast" in your opinion when it is done, how will it be judged? Do you just believe it is fast? based on previous motors you built? Without many competitors of your skill in your class, what is the standard against which you compare? Obviously you are very well informed and dedicated. My own stimulus was to be the class winner over multiple experienced racers with the same or similar combinations.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode