SS Modified

Mike Mans · 10-27-2015, 10:15 AM

While it sounds interesting on paper, you're talking about something that will never happen. You need a "spec head/motor" for GM/Ford/Mopar. And even if there were a $10k limit placed on this motor, how would that be enforced/policed?

Stock eliminator has aluminum headed big block combinations that CFE is welding, porting, and re-blasting to appear perfectly stock for a rough price of $10k. NHRA can't definitively tell the difference between these heads and a true stock casting - how would they tell if a spec head is still untouched? There is absolutely no such thing as a cost effective Heads Up class. There will always be competitors who push the envelope and spend more time and money to win.

Beyond the motor you still have to invest $6k in a Pro-Trans, $3k Dewco/Indy Gear Center section, $4k+ RacePak, and the list goes on and on... Budget will never have a place in going fast in heads up drag racing if you want to win.

All this talk about low cost ways for people to win and have the same thing that others who are working hard and spending more for - this thread sounds like it's a political argument... "Everyone should be able to win class and heads up races no matter their time and money investment." - Obama... lol

Mike

SSGT Mustang · 10-27-2015, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

While it sounds interesting on paper, you're talking about something that will never happen. You need a "spec head/motor" for GM/Ford/Mopar. And even if there were a $10k limit placed on this motor, how would that be enforced/policed?

Stock eliminator has aluminum headed big block combinations that CFE is welding, porting, and re-blasting to appear perfectly stock for a rough price of $10k. NHRA can't definitively tell the difference between these heads and a true stock casting - how would they tell if a spec head is still untouched? There is absolutely no such thing as a cost effective Heads Up class. There will always be competitors who push the envelope and spend more time and money to win.

Beyond the motor you still have to invest $6k in a Pro-Trans, $3k Dewco/Indy Gear Center section, $4k+ RacePak, and the list goes on and on... Budget will never have a place in going fast in heads up drag racing if you want to win.

All this talk about low cost ways for people to win and have the same thing that others who are working hard and spending more for - this thread sounds like it's a political argument... "Everyone should be able to win class and heads up races no matter their time and money investment." - Obama... lol

Mike

Outstanding post!

buzzinhalfdozen · 10-27-2015, 11:32 AM

impstocker, actually this thread wasn't started as a debate about SS/CS but quickly turned into one. Mike Mans makes many good points on that subject, as pertaining to CS. However the OP was asking what made a modified car a modified car, which several good answers were given. Then moved to questions about old comp engines, which was met with differing opinions. My opinion, if the gentleman has the engine and would like to dip his toes in the Super Stock pool build it, race it and have fun. If he finds that this is the type racing he enjoys he has many options to upgrade. Of course Dick is still pushing his "econo modified" agenda, which has been beaten to death.

impstocker · 10-27-2015, 11:45 AM

buzzinhalf dozen,
I agree and if I hijacked the original intent of the thread I do apologize. What that fella wants to do with that Comp motor is cool and it is about having fun. I only started to read this thread because this was the same thing my friend with his old 68 C/SM Camaro was thinking about, and he would still run the stick shift because it's more fun too!

Will Lamprecht

Dick Butler · 10-27-2015, 11:49 AM

Nope, not still pushing the agenda just commenting on the thread of Mod.
It will not change until costs really are an issue with majority of racers or entries drop due to concerns reaching a greater number about factoring on HP.
Still a nice place to see friends, share stories and raise kids while we can afford it.

randy wilson · 10-27-2015, 12:38 PM

It has been beat to death, but was never tried. For instance, they do make a spec head for Mopar, Chevy, and Ford. They flow virtually the same. They use them in lots of circle track classes. The heads have spec cast in them on the top, and bottom of both ports. My point ain't to get an Obama class, just an option of not having to change heads every two years. We did it locally for several years, and I hear they are going to open again next year. We had great crowds, and the last two shootouts were won by 6 thousandths, and 2 10 thousandths of a second. It definitely doesn't take hard work out of the equation, it makes you pay special attention to the cam, carb, and gearing. Plus, if you hurt a head, $500 and you have a new bare head. Not taking anything away from folks like the Manns, or Bogner, or anyone else. Just saying it ain't like we were trying to reinvent the wheel. Also, for a fee of $50 Brodix will let you ship it to them and they can tell real quick if someone messed with it. Just a thought. Feel free to bash away. I'm 60. I don't care.

Mike Mans · 10-27-2015, 02:29 PM

Overall, I understand your thoughts and directions - and I don't disagree that there could be a class/category like this somewhere. Do I think it's a realistic idea for current day NHRA Super Stock? Not likely. But I think it is really a neat idea for a smaller local Super Stock organization to put on a class like this in a regional area. Personally - I really enjoy heads up racing and would love to participate in more of it. The spec head deal would be neat, but if there were ever large payout opportunities - that's when people are absolutely going to push the limits and invest large amounts to make more power and then cover it back up. AKA: Stock Eliminator, unfortunately. At the root of Stock, they are all "Spec motors." I bet a "stock" 1969 Camaro never went 9.90's

We're all innovators and always looking for the next loop-hole to gain an advantage - that's why we run Stock and Super Stock instead of S/Street/Gas/Comp.

I never meant to offend anyone or get this thread off-topic, of course. The original starter was asking the basic question of what makes a modified car. Hope I didn't derail the intent too far.

Mike

Dick Butler · 10-27-2015, 05:09 PM

Mike I agree I never meant to offend or capture topic. Just thoughts....
Dick

randy wilson · 10-27-2015, 05:59 PM

It takes a lot to offend me, and nothing anyone has posted has bothered me In the slightest. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and I admire what the Manns have accomplished, and others in all the different classes. I just think with 110 classes, there is probably twice that many head combos, and Houdini couldn't catch all the stuff that many guys have dreamed up. That being said, I think 3 sets of heads designed by one company would be easier to police then all those other combos. Especially when there services are available to the buyer, or sanctioning body. I know at Knoxville, Dave Rodder was there from Brodix for the Nationals, and one competitor he was checking out, he said, and I quote, "Ray Charles could see those heads are modified!" End quote. Factory support ain't a bad thing. Also, lots of areas in this class to cut cost in my theories, and easily policed, but that's for another day.

71mavlouisville · 10-27-2015, 06:25 PM

Mike, your post on this thread are the best I've read in a long time, love the Obama comment, LMAO, right on!

10-27-2015, 10:15 AM	#1
Mike Mans Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 177 Likes: 21 Liked 299 Times in 48 Posts	Re: SS Modified While it sounds interesting on paper, you're talking about something that will never happen. You need a "spec head/motor" for GM/Ford/Mopar. And even if there were a $10k limit placed on this motor, how would that be enforced/policed? Stock eliminator has aluminum headed big block combinations that CFE is welding, porting, and re-blasting to appear perfectly stock for a rough price of $10k. NHRA can't definitively tell the difference between these heads and a true stock casting - how would they tell if a spec head is still untouched? There is absolutely no such thing as a cost effective Heads Up class. There will always be competitors who push the envelope and spend more time and money to win. Beyond the motor you still have to invest $6k in a Pro-Trans, $3k Dewco/Indy Gear Center section, $4k+ RacePak, and the list goes on and on... Budget will never have a place in going fast in heads up drag racing if you want to win. All this talk about low cost ways for people to win and have the same thing that others who are working hard and spending more for - this thread sounds like it's a political argument... "Everyone should be able to win class and heads up races no matter their time and money investment." - Obama... lol Mike

10-27-2015, 11:32 AM	#3
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: SS Modified impstocker, actually this thread wasn't started as a debate about SS/CS but quickly turned into one. Mike Mans makes many good points on that subject, as pertaining to CS. However the OP was asking what made a modified car a modified car, which several good answers were given. Then moved to questions about old comp engines, which was met with differing opinions. My opinion, if the gentleman has the engine and would like to dip his toes in the Super Stock pool build it, race it and have fun. If he finds that this is the type racing he enjoys he has many options to upgrade. Of course Dick is still pushing his "econo modified" agenda, which has been beaten to death. __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

10-27-2015, 11:45 AM	#4
impstocker Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wingdale, NY Posts: 302 Likes: 27 Liked 53 Times in 16 Posts	Re: SS Modified buzzinhalf dozen, I agree and if I hijacked the original intent of the thread I do apologize. What that fella wants to do with that Comp motor is cool and it is about having fun. I only started to read this thread because this was the same thing my friend with his old 68 C/SM Camaro was thinking about, and he would still run the stick shift because it's more fun too! Will Lamprecht

10-27-2015, 11:49 AM	#5
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: SS Modified Nope, not still pushing the agenda just commenting on the thread of Mod. It will not change until costs really are an issue with majority of racers or entries drop due to concerns reaching a greater number about factoring on HP. Still a nice place to see friends, share stories and raise kids while we can afford it.

10-27-2015, 12:38 PM	#6
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: SS Modified It has been beat to death, but was never tried. For instance, they do make a spec head for Mopar, Chevy, and Ford. They flow virtually the same. They use them in lots of circle track classes. The heads have spec cast in them on the top, and bottom of both ports. My point ain't to get an Obama class, just an option of not having to change heads every two years. We did it locally for several years, and I hear they are going to open again next year. We had great crowds, and the last two shootouts were won by 6 thousandths, and 2 10 thousandths of a second. It definitely doesn't take hard work out of the equation, it makes you pay special attention to the cam, carb, and gearing. Plus, if you hurt a head, $500 and you have a new bare head. Not taking anything away from folks like the Manns, or Bogner, or anyone else. Just saying it ain't like we were trying to reinvent the wheel. Also, for a fee of $50 Brodix will let you ship it to them and they can tell real quick if someone messed with it. Just a thought. Feel free to bash away. I'm 60. I don't care. __________________ don,t have one

10-27-2015, 02:29 PM	#7
Mike Mans Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 177 Likes: 21 Liked 299 Times in 48 Posts	Re: SS Modified Overall, I understand your thoughts and directions - and I don't disagree that there could be a class/category like this somewhere. Do I think it's a realistic idea for current day NHRA Super Stock? Not likely. But I think it is really a neat idea for a smaller local Super Stock organization to put on a class like this in a regional area. Personally - I really enjoy heads up racing and would love to participate in more of it. The spec head deal would be neat, but if there were ever large payout opportunities - that's when people are absolutely going to push the limits and invest large amounts to make more power and then cover it back up. AKA: Stock Eliminator, unfortunately. At the root of Stock, they are all "Spec motors." I bet a "stock" 1969 Camaro never went 9.90's We're all innovators and always looking for the next loop-hole to gain an advantage - that's why we run Stock and Super Stock instead of S/Street/Gas/Comp. I never meant to offend anyone or get this thread off-topic, of course. The original starter was asking the basic question of what makes a modified car. Hope I didn't derail the intent too far. Mike

10-27-2015, 05:09 PM	#8
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: SS Modified Mike I agree I never meant to offend or capture topic. Just thoughts.... Dick

10-27-2015, 05:59 PM	#9
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: SS Modified It takes a lot to offend me, and nothing anyone has posted has bothered me In the slightest. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and I admire what the Manns have accomplished, and others in all the different classes. I just think with 110 classes, there is probably twice that many head combos, and Houdini couldn't catch all the stuff that many guys have dreamed up. That being said, I think 3 sets of heads designed by one company would be easier to police then all those other combos. Especially when there services are available to the buyer, or sanctioning body. I know at Knoxville, Dave Rodder was there from Brodix for the Nationals, and one competitor he was checking out, he said, and I quote, "Ray Charles could see those heads are modified!" End quote. Factory support ain't a bad thing. Also, lots of areas in this class to cut cost in my theories, and easily policed, but that's for another day. __________________ don,t have one

10-27-2015, 06:25 PM	#10
71mavlouisville Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 68 Likes: 0 Liked 28 Times in 1 Post	Re: SS Modified Mike, your post on this thread are the best I've read in a long time, love the Obama comment, LMAO, right on! __________________ Ashton Hudson SS/CS 4373

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