Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

[oldskool]

We'll get around to possible 350 and 400 combos later. But since I already have a couple of 455's together, I wanna discuss 455 combos some more. I already mentioned using a '76 TA.

But now I wanna explore the possibility of using one of the heavier bodies. One of my Pontiac heroes from the old days was Jack Mullins. We saw him run at a points race in Jackson, MS in the mid '70's. He ran a screamin 389 and a 4-speed in a big heavy wagon.

Jack won some big races. I think it was at the US Nationals where he beat the factory Mopar driven by Judy Lilly(Miss Mighty Mopar). I think he was responsible for several hp refactors on the 389 Pontiac engine.

Another famous Pontiac racing wagon was the "Tons a Fun" Lemans wagon. I think Gary and Charlene Wood both won races in this wagon--actually there were at least 2 of them.

http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/...ntiac-history/

I can see at least 3 advantages of using a wagon. (1) They are heavy, putting you in a much lower class. (2) A lot of that weight is in the rear, which should help increase traction. (3) If you can find one that hasn't been crushed, it should be cheaper than a TA.

Now there are several other big cars that were about the same weight as the wagons. Some of these had a real long wheel base--123". Some, like the Grand Prix, had a shorter wb--116"

Now, my thinking is that the big cars with the real long wb would be the least desirable for a drag car. I would think that either a Lemans or a GP would be a little easier to hook up, than the big car with the longer wb. What do you guys think ?

One other advantage I can see that the heavier cars might have is that you can run the stiffer radial slicks with a lot of air pressure. They will still hook because of the extra weight over the tires, especially the wagons. And the higher air pressure will produce less rolling resistance.

After looking at the list of '76 models that can run a 455, it looks to me like the Lemans wagons with 116' wb might be the best choice. Next would be the 112" wb 2-door Lemans. Then the GP's. I'd say that the Cats and Bonnies with 123" wb would be the worst choices.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2107

Now, here's a question for you guys. The big wagons have a 127" wb and weigh 5000lbs. Is this just too big for Stocker ? Or can it still be competitive because of it's slower index ? Will all that extra weight be harder on parts, causing failures ?

Also, do any of you guys know if the '76 Lemans and Lemans Wagons had the 8.5" rear end ? What about the GP ? Cat's, Bonnies, & Big Wagons ?

[oldskool]

Now, I think all these '76 Pontiacs except for the Birds had coil spring suspension. The Cal-Trac type set-up seems to be pretty much std equip for today's leaf spring Stocker.

But how about the coil spring cars ? On my '69 GTO, all I did was stiffen the rubber bushings with finishing nails, and run air bags, with more air in the passenger side bag. It worked OK on a mid 12 sec car.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Air-Lift/Air-L...43887/10002/-1

So what is the best legal set up for the coil spring suspension on one of these heavy cars ? If there are any aftermarket parts involved, please list brands and part numbers if you have them. Links to them would be great.

Whether I use a coil spring car or not, there is probably somebody who will read this who can benefit from a detailed description of a good coil spring set-up for a Stocker. Thanks in advance for sharing this info with us.

[HandOverFist]

Variations of these work well... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hal-5213/overview/

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by HandOverFist

Variations of these work well... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hal-5213/overview/

OK, that's one vote for no hop bars. Is that what most of you coil spring guys are using ?

[Tony Corley]

Lots of companies that make great suspension components out there for A Bodies. Even though lowers can't be adjustable per the rulebook, adjustable uppers, a good anti roll bar and shock package will allow you to make changes on the car as needed. This is just a couple of examples of companies that make great products.


http://trzmotorsports.com/wp2/?produ...sion-1968-1972


http://www.wolferacecraft.com/Search...?CategoryID=28

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Tony Corley

Lots of companies that make great suspension components out there for A Bodies. Even though lowers can't be adjustable per the rulebook, adjustable uppers, a good anti roll bar and shock package will allow you to make changes on the car as needed. This is just a couple of examples of companies that make great products.


http://trzmotorsports.com/wp2/?produ...sion-1968-1972


http://www.wolferacecraft.com/Search...?CategoryID=28

OK, I've seen these "anti roll bars" but I don't know exactly how they work.

(1) Does anybody have a link to a site or sites with pics and explanations and/or installation instructions for these devices ?

(2) Is this what most of the quicker Stockers are running ?

(3) Would these be required on a 4000 lb + car, such as a wagon ? Or will the large amount of weight make these extreme components unnecessary ?

(4) The adjustable uppers that were mentioned. Does that mean that most cars need shorter arms ? or longer ?

(5) Are the different length arms to change pinion angle, or suspension geometry ?

(6) What about the coil spring "slapper' bars ? Are they totally useless for Stockers ? Sorry about my ignorance on this subject. I've just never used any of the above products.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Competition-En...37234/10002/-1

[Tony Corley]

This site is a good source for answering a lot of your questions.


http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/


Necessary to me would be anything that gives an advantage, but at the same time, I had a 71 Monte Carlo SS 454 back in the early 80's that would run 11.50's with 1.50 sixty foot times with nothing but air shocks on the rear, lol.
'

[HandOverFist]

Originally Posted by oldskool

OK, that's one vote for no hop bars. Is that what most of you coil spring guys are using ?

Just for reference those were used in this '66 Chevelle 396SS. Basicly a street car with minimal mods...5.38 gear, TH350, Moroso front springs, running full street trim at 3800 + pounds. Best I remember was a 7.00 1/8-mile with a 1.50 60'...a real lead sled.

[Adam Strang]

I`m working on the `68 350 HO right now.I got a CP piston approved by NHRA .I think the only thing hurting the motor will be the small intake valve it does have the same cam,carb and intake as the 400 so it can`t be that bad.That being said I still think it needs another 5 or 10 hp off.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Adam Strang

I`m working on the `68 350 HO right now.I got a CP piston approved by NHRA .I think the only thing hurting the motor will be the small intake valve it does have the same cam,carb and intake as the 400 so it can`t be that bad.That being said I still think it needs another 5 or 10 hp off.

Hey Adam, I am REAL interested in your 350HO build. Why don't you start a thread on it ???

With the small cubes I don't think the small intake valves will hurt a thing. Hey, them screamin sbc motors only have 2.02 valves. And with the almost unlimited duration available from a Bullet Stocker cam, you'll have all the flow you need.

I'm thinkin you'll need to turn it at least 7000rpm +. So I reckin you'll need some heavy springs and some of those Sherman tool steel lifters like Brent is gonna get. What do you think ? At least 4500 stall ?

I bought a '69 Tempest 350HO ex-Stocker to run bracket with. The dyno sheet said it made 434hp. But it was not tricked out. Just a stock rod, TRW engine. Ran mid 12's. I had a diesel crew cab, a two car gooseneck, and 2 Pontiac powered bracket cars, for the 2010 season. But our local track did not open the entire year. Sold the truck, trailer, T-body and the #48 heads.

Hey, don't forget. Start that build thread !