What's wrong with Stock?

[ss wannabee]

Originally Posted by ALMACK

^^ I agree.
I've often wondered what would happen if I got paired up with one of those 8 sec. "VIN-less" cars and I trap at 106 mph and he comes buzzing past me at 150 plus mph.

Let those cars run with each other in a separate FX eliminator...I know it's been said
before by others...Also, I don't think there should ever be an 8-second Stocker...it doesn't
sound right to me...I'm still having a "problem" with 9-second Stock Elim cars...but that's
just my .02.....

Allowing "VIN-less" cars in Stock is just one more example of Stock Elim's intent being
compromised a bit further...then there's the speed differential with the slower cars...

I wouldn't want to be out there running those monsters with a 15-16 second "dime
rocket"....

[Pedigo Perf]

How about the bottom 4 qualifiers have to hold a "SHAME ON YOU NHRA" banner at the track entrance. Hey it's a start.

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Mike, What do we do about Charlie Bob Downing? That car started out in K/Stock , I think. You want new classes all the way down? Won't happen.

No. No new classes at all. Use the regular NHRA classes. AAA down to G or whatever the lowest class a new car can run (K/SA with the convertible Mustang I think?). Run like Comp. That way, ALL new cars can compete, instead of basically AAA-AA-BB-CC. ALL new cars can run for the money. Charlie would get a 2.2 second head-start over Fezzell (11.80 F/S to AAA/S 9.70); first one to the stripe wins.

Regular class, regular Index, regular weight, and AHFS can then apply as normal.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by ss wannabee

Let those cars run with each other in a separate FX eliminator...I know it's been said
before by others...Also, I don't think there should ever be an 8-second Stocker...it doesn't
sound right to me...I'm still having a "problem" with 9-second Stock Elim cars...but that's
just my .02.....

Allowing "VIN-less" cars in Stock is just one more example of Stock Elim's intent being
compromised a bit further...then there's the speed differential with the slower cars...

I wouldn't want to be out there running those monsters with a 15-16 second "dime
rocket"....

I know what you mean by Vin-less cars , guys..but that's not the problem.Most of the 80's Olds Cutlasses you still see don't have VINs either.

There needs to be a specific description for the sake of discussion, and to be able to separate them , if desired. We know they were never certified for the road with emissions and CAFE standards. Also not part of a run of 500 or more cars.
I like FX cars , because that's what they are.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Carguy49

Mark, here is an idea. The quickest runs by the factory cars at Indy were - FS/A @ 8.646 and FS/B @ 8.849. So we know what the cars are capable of. Make the indexes starting the next time they run - FS/A @ 9.75 and FS/B @ 10.00 and implement the AHFS for all cars. That should level the playing field and make most races happy, at least for a little while. Just my 2 cents, but hey you gotta start somewhere.

Ron, I was thinking of something along those lines for FS, but that's really just an Indy deal at this time. Lower the indexes and they'll still qualify at Indy but it won't look so blatant anyway.
Better off to leave the indexes alone, and put the AHFS in affect
It's very hard to analyze the data from Indy because FS cars aren't subject to hp penalties.

Right now, I'm more concerned about guys with good running traditional cars like Scott Burton's being covered by 4 tenths in the eliminator by an FX car.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

No. No new classes at all. Use the regular NHRA classes. AAA down to G or whatever the lowest class a new car can run (K/SA with the convertible Mustang I think?). Run like Comp. That way, ALL new cars can compete, instead of basically AAA-AA-BB-CC. ALL new cars can run for the money. Charlie would get a 2.2 second head-start over Fezzell (11.80 F/S to AAA/S 9.70); first one to the stripe wins.

Regular class, regular Index, regular weight, and AHFS can then apply as normal.

Okay, so now it sounds like a new eliminator category?

There aren't enough FX cars in some parts of the country to do something like that.

[Mike Carr]

Mark, my proposal revises the current FSS deal somewhat. No more, no less.

Take Indy for example: Indy, they run their normal class all weekend. Come time for Class Eliminations, they run FSS, except ALL the new cars run each other, much like a Stock Combo Class. This would be the new FSS. They all run each other. The winner of that all-run (67 cars at Indy) race would be the FSS winner. And the old cars can still win CC/SA on down (AAA-AA-BB would be empty classes for Class Elims, since those cars would run the 'new' FSS format, unless an older high-hp car can fit). And, in eliminations, they dial-in as normal, except for heads-up runs.

All we are doing is revamping/improving the FSS Format, so that they play under the same AHFS rules as everyone else.

This only applies to races with a FSS Shootout. Which, as far as I know, is only three to four Nat'l Events a year.

Ideally, all new cars would have an FX designation, but NHRA will never add new classes (except for down the road if they need AAAA/SA and AAAAA/SA)

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Mark, my proposal revises the current FSS deal somewhat. No more, no less.

Take Indy for example: Indy, they run their normal class all weekend. Come time for Class Eliminations, they run FSS, except ALL the new cars run each other, much like a Stock Combo Class. This would be the new FSS. They all run each other. The winner of that all-run (67 cars at Indy) race would be the FSS winner. And the old cars can still win CC/SA on down (AAA-AA-BB would be empty classes for Class Elims, since those cars would run the 'new' FSS format, unless an older high-hp car can fit). And, in eliminations, they dial-in as normal, except for heads-up runs.

All we are doing is revamping/improving the FSS Format, so that they play under the same AHFS rules as everyone else.

This only applies to races with a FSS Shootout. Which, as far as I know, is only three to four Nat'l Events a year.

Ideally, all new cars would have an FX designation, but NHRA will never add new classes (except for down the road if they need AAAA/SA and AAAAA/SA)

Okay. It takes same amount of total time to run x number of cars, no matter how many in each individual class.. I get this but now they're back in the eliminator beating up on the old cars.

Solution? Put an X in front of the class designation on the "new" cars.
NO heads up runs between X and non X cars..
Yes I just opened up that can of worms.

[Mark Yacavone]

I like Mikey's idea for Nat events contesting FS.

How about...other events with Class ; Run all FX stockers in one combo class.

So, you've got one more class trophy to give out .. Big deal .Not gonna break 'em.
Maybe not... Say you have two cars in B/SA...both FX cars. They both go to combo class so they save a trophy there anyway

[Carguy49]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Ron, I was thinking of something along those lines for FS, but that's really just an Indy deal at this time. Lower the indexes and they'll still qualify at Indy but it won't look so blatant anyway.
Better off to leave the indexes alone, and put the AHFS in affect
It's very hard to analyze the data from Indy because FS cars aren't subject to hp penalties.

Right now, I'm more concerned about guys with good running traditional cars like Scott Burton's being covered by 4 tenths in the eliminator by an FX car.

Mark, I see what you are saying. Problem being, with leaving the index alone, then the cars aren't going to be run all out anymore. At least, by lowering the index, the cars won't run 1.4 or 1.5 under anymore. They should be about .8 to 1.1 under, hopefully

I totally agree with you about the deal of traditional stockers, such as, Scott Burton's Firebird being outrun with ease. I am sure that is why he left Indy. Can't bring a knife to a gun fight.

As I have said all along, I like the new cars (definitely fun to watch run), but where should they be put. I keep hearing FX and I like the way that sounds. Takes me back to the sixties and SOHC Mustangs, altered wheelbase Coronets and such. Ah the good old days.

Maybe put them in their own eliminator. But like you said, there aren't enough of them nationwide to make that work either. Just more food for thought.