What's wrong with Stock?

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Short version:
1) The factory race cars are indefensibly underfactored. Start their factor anywhere CLOSE to the right zip code and there would not have been anywhere near as many complaints about them.

2) Having some classes ineligible to be affected by the AHFS while everyone else is, is completely indefensible.

In my opinion, they should have brought the cars in with realistic HP factors, and if they did not fit into Stock Eliminator classifications, then they should've gone straight to Super Stock, just like the old Hemi factory race cars. I'm not sure why showing how well someone can detune a car to keep from displaying its full potential is supposed to be good advertising for the "sell on Monday" crowd. The Hellcat rocked the automotive industry by claiming 707HP and 10-sec ET slips from a soon-to-be showroom available monster. Who would've given it a second glance if they came out and said, "This supercharged engine makes almost 426HP!"

Something I haven't seen mentioned is having 8-second cars competing against cars running 100 mph or less, typically without so much as a roll bar. I'll be honest, I'm kinda glad I haven't been running the Turismo. If a trans line or radiator hose comes loose and one of those 150 mph cars goes THROUGH me, I'm a dead man. Those cars should've been classified in Super Stock, in my opinion. Otherwise, realistically, they should start requiring a minimum of a roll bar in all classes.


In the interest of full disclosure, I run a 5.9L DragPak engine in my Volare (GT/HA). I built it specifically *because* it is ridiculously underfactored.

^^ I agree.
I've often wondered what would happen if I got paired up with one of those 8 sec. "VIN-less" cars and I trap at 106 mph and he comes buzzing past me at 150 plus mph.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by ALMACK

^^ I agree.
I've often wondered what would happen if I got paired up with one of those 8 sec. "VIN-less" cars and I trap at 106 mph and he comes buzzing past me at 150 plus mph.

How is that much different from an SS/P car running an SS/AH car?

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by GUMP

How is that much different from an SS/P car running an SS/AH car?

The difference I was referring to is that I do not have a roll bar....yet.

All Super Stockers require a roll bar at minimum.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by ALMACK

The difference I was referring to is that I do not have a roll bar....yet.

All Super Stockers require a roll bar at minimum.

So, why isn't this an issue at the combo races?

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by GUMP

So, why isn't this an issue at the combo races?

Dunno.

I will say that earlier this year I was at a combo race and in the 2nd round I got paired with the SS/GT Mustang that just won at Indy over the weekend.

Needless to say, I perked up when he came buzzing by me at the finish line.

Thus...the reason I think about the mph difference more with my "bar-less" Stocker.

The bar is going in this winter.

[Signman]

If the manufacturers want the big stage of NHRA Class Racing they need to pony up the ca$h for a separate eliminator, pay for TV coverage and see if it turns into sales. Just a marketing strategy.

The issue with Stock Eliminator in Indy was the the gift of no HP for the Factory Shootout Cars plain and simple.
Bobby's post makes this clear.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by GUMP

So, why isn't this an issue at the combo races?

Who says it isn't? Speed differentials and chassis construction don't know what class designation is on the window, or what event it is. I ran the Turismo at the Spring Fling one year, and ran a car that was close to Top Sportsman territory first round. He wrecked in front of me. If he would've lost it 300' sooner, he would've gone through me. Scared the h*ll out of me.

Rules are minimum guidelines, not maximums. If I were to seriously race the Turismo again, particularly in 1/4-mile country, I would give heavy consideration to putting a roll bar in it.

[Bruce Noland]

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[Rory McNeil]

I`m curious as to why the factorys didn`t promote their actual production line cars, like the Mustang GT/Boss 302/Shelby, Chevys SS/Z28/ZL1 Camaros, and the various MoPar Challengers.
Factory HP ratings too high?
Not enough exotic/trick factory pieces?
Lack of OE offered Powerglides and Ford 9" rearends?
Factory shipping weights too high?
I always thought much of the challenge of Stock was making the best of the obstacles the compromised factory parts that you had to work with.
It would appear that the "Big 3" have avoided any such nusiances, by creating a bunch of purpose built, max effort race cars, using a blank sheet of paper to eliminate having to deal with any pesky OE production compromise designs. And then by making minor spec tweaks each year, they assure themselves of always having another under rated combination in the wings. Nice. Kinda like a NFL Pro football team beating up on a high school team. . And having somebody come on here to talk about how much time and effort hey have spent to make their new 2014 factory race car competetive against a guy who has been thrashing on his "nostalgia" combo for 20,30, or more years, in a slap in the face.

[Bobby Fazio]

Just make the FS/A index 9.60 and FS/B 9.85, problem solved. Of course FS cars should be subject to AHFS like the rest of us though, that was pretty much a joke but a great marketing technique to guarantee that a boatload of new Chevrolets got to run all out, get lots of spots in the Stock Eliminator field, compete at and eventually win the 60th annual Chevrolet US nationals!

Some numbers to ponder:

-The qualified average for all the FS cars at Indy was -1.255 under.
-The average for all entered FS cars was -1.1985 under, not counting Bill Skillman or Jim Harrison.
-25 of 30 FS cars made the field.

-The average qualified NON-FS stocker was -1.004 under
-33 of the these were factory race cars averaging -1.056 under.
-58 factory race cars made up the field of 128 --> 45% of the field.
-The average for all entered NON-FS, NON FACTORY RACE CAR stockers was -.897 under, not counting Jim Tool. The bump was -.882 under.


And just for the hell of it:
-5 NON-FS cars will get immediate HP today, 3 of which are factory race cars.
-30 NON-FS cars will be subject to review, 17 of which are factory race cars.