Econo Modified

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Glenn Hayes

Michael,
Has anyone done some real world testing of this on some drag cars?
I'm curious.

If I understand what your stating, in theory, we should be able to pick 20 cars, equip each with a single 4 barrel carb, install the 1" carb plate and the 2" header collector and have a group of cars that should E.T. with in approximately 0.10 of one another.

We actually had a major track owner and a DD interested in this and we had cars lined up to test but everybody got too busy and it never got done. BUT it'll be a whole bunch easier to get "20 cars, equip each with a single 4 barrel carb, install the 1" carb plate and the 2" header collector" and actually test them then it will be to get 20 cars, equip each with the same manufacturers spec head, install a trick clutch and 4 or 5 speed and get them all to weigh in on a 10 lb. per cube weight break!

[Dick Butler]

Billy very good point. Probably will take a few test and tune runs for jetting etc . Only difference is the guys will still have the 20K + motors when all is said and done but it would allow a test of the theory.

[Mike Taylor 3601]

The first thing that came to mind with restrictor plates was nascar,I know they were introduced to slow down cars on super speedways,I think the theory was slap the plates on there and that would be it,I don't think they knew what was going to happen,they devoloped engines around the plates,spent lots and lots of dollars,on R&D,it seemed like simple fix but turned into nightmare.
I don't know if something like that would happen with Billy's ideal,but I think a engine could be built that would take advantage of restrictors on intake and exhaust,you put them on your ordinary engine it's going to make bigger difference,could you build engine to work with restrictors that would be advantage?maybe
I had friend worked nascar for years now retired,once told me of lasered intakes used on restrictor plate engines,they had thousands of tiny holes put in by laser so they could pull air through them,said they were mainly to qualify with because dirt,rubber,etc. would stop the holes after so many laps
I think the easiest and least expensive way to do this would be with the brodix spec heads,it would only allow 3 engines to be ran as evenly matched as possible
I believe if you allow deck height from 9.0-9.600 that would keep rotate assm. close in weight and that covers sbc,351w and sbm would allow guy to start w/stock block if they wanted that option.

The restrictors would allow many combo's which would be good,but could the parity be kept equal?

The main thing in my opinion that kills most heads up racing that fails is,a few run off from everyone else then you are left w/2-3 cars and it's over.
Keep cost down,cars evenly matched,I believe it could work.
MikeTaylor 3601

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Glenn Hayes

Make the Class with 4 & 5 speeds only.

AND IT WILL BE GUARANTEED TO FAIL. You can't dis-allow 90% of your customers. You guys have to decide what you are willing to LIVE with. We have a local Pro-Stick circuit and it's fun to watch and does very well but they don't run heads-up. In fact, add to the simple rules; Stick cars and trans-brake autos must add 100 lbs. to minimum weight.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Glenn Hayes

Make the Class with 4 & 5 speeds only.

Much as I would like to see a bunch of old Modified cars with stick shifts, if you make it clutch cars only, you will restrict the available car count.

This isn't just going to be a bunch of youngsters either, that would want to be changing clutches and transmission gear ratios all the time.

Whatever you end up with for engine rules, make it autos allowed, but no weight break.

Only other thing I see is delineating the newer aero cars from the old.
There isn't an exact year where it all started, so maybe a weight break for longer wheelbase.

You wouldn't need a big weight difference to correct anything ,with cu. in. / weight and a spec head motor.

[randy wilson]

Mark, what year of car would start carrying the wt? Serious question. Another serious question. Is there an advantage from clutching, and shifting a 5 speed, and say, a trick 200 metric?

[Ed Wright]

The stick cars do bigger wheel stands?

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Mark, what year of car would start carrying the wt? Serious question. Another serious question. Is there an advantage from clutching, and shifting a 5 speed, and say, a trick 200 metric?

Don't know ..That's why I said use wb maybe.
Have to look at the common cars out there..
Maybe under 108 , as is
108 -114 take out 50 lbs.
115 or more, (Tri Five Chevies) take out 100.

If you look at S/SS cars..ET's as good or better with automatics.
MPH usually higher with stick shifts... Simple physics there..although high rpm motors can couple a converter up more, but not 100%...unless of course you allow lock up converters LOL

[randy wilson]

Thanks Mark.That helps.

[Glenn Hayes]

One thing that you need to keep in mind:
The NHRA has turned it's back on Sportsman racing for many reasons, but I believe they no longer want to deal with trying to enforce and regulate engine rules. This requires way to much time, man power, etc which equals money.

Look around, the Pro Mod, 10.5 Tire Classes, Top Sportsman, etc are thriving do to basically allowing you to show up with what ever combination you can dream up, and as long as you meet the minimum weight and have the correct tire, your good to go.

We all know why Super Street, Super Gas and Super Comp have flourished over the past 25 years, same reason, run what ever you want and don't break out. Where they went wrong in my opinion was allowing electronics and throttle controls. Take all of that away and put it back in the drivers seat and see what happens!

If your going to start a new class, one must learn from the failures of years and classes gone by. I, like many of you have been there through all of this over the past 40+ years and that's why this discussion is taking place.