New Jr. Stock Class

[MAURICE BLENDHEIM]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Good Comment if we dont care about Stock or Super Stock but I believe there is a place for an inexpensive, simple class with TIGHT rules for new or OLDE guys to enjoy and continue these type cars... Neon might be a good candidate...as mentioned.

Dick...I care about Stock and Super Stock. The words Inexpensive" and "simple" are not relative to these classes. I can't help but think the previously mentioned vehicles that have a reputation for being passed in the slow lane on the highway, on the way to an event can somehow find a spot in our staging lanes. Stock and Super Stock represent American Muscle and should remain that way! Some of the oldest Super Stock racers run cars in the 8's at 150+ and 9 second Stockers also run by the senior racers and they are enjoying it. I don't think a "Neon or Aveo Shootout" would be worth standing up in an outhouse to watch!!! Entry level racing is called Bracket racing. If you want to race Stock and Super Stock it simply costs money if you care. We need to lose these "under a grand" and "dime rocket" thoughts it is belittling the classes and the sanctioning body and fans already don't make room for us. Stock and Super Stock pits represent innovation, intelligence, experience, financial commitment , respect and professionalism. So please think about something more sensible. MB (just my opinion)

[Dick Butler]

Originally Posted by MAURICE BLENDHEIM

Dick...I care about Stock and Super Stock. The words Inexpensive" and "simple" are not relative to these classes. I can't help but think the previously mentioned vehicles that have a reputation for being passed in the slow lane on the highway, on the way to an event can somehow find a spot in our staging lanes. Stock and Super Stock represent American Muscle and should remain that way! Some of the oldest Super Stock racers run cars in the 8's at 150+ and 9 second Stockers also run by the senior racers and they are enjoying it. I don't think a "Neon or Aveo Shootout" would be worth standing up in an outhouse to watch!!! Entry level racing is called Bracket racing. If you want to race Stock and Super Stock it simply costs money if you care. We need to lose these "under a grand" and "dime rocket" thoughts it is belittling the classes and the sanctioning body and fans already don't make room for us. Stock and Super Stock pits represent innovation, intelligence, experience, financial commitment , respect and professionalism. So please think about something more sensible. MB (just my opinion)

Some good thoughts but missed the point that the cost to run a Stocker or SS shouldnt have to be the same as a family home, the same as 4 years salary or be a moving target produced allowed by only factory standards.
Jr Stock wasnt the FASTEST or the most Expensive Muscle cars built but provided a heck of a lot of personal satisfaction and challenge on an affordable level.
They were a challenge across country for innovation and skills. They appealed to spectators and racers knowing the fact most could compete.

[Jeff Lee]

Dick,
We have FWD Stock. If you call that a successful class, you have your eyes shut! I'm with Maurice, some of these class cars are somewhat embarrassing and I've heard that from other mouths, not just mine. And I started in FWD. FWD is there, use it to your life's content. But it certainly doesn't need any upgrades.

[MAURICE BLENDHEIM]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Some good thoughts but missed the point that the cost to run a Stocker or SS shouldnt have to be the same as a family home, the same as 4 years salary or be a moving target produced allowed by only factory standards.
Jr Stock wasnt the FASTEST or the most Expensive Muscle cars built but provided a heck of a lot of personal satisfaction and challenge on an affordable level.
They were a challenge across country for innovation and skills. They appealed to spectators and racers knowing the fact most could compete.

Dick... I've calmed down now. I can "read between the lines" and know what you mean by cost. I have spent 2+ years wages and 2+ years worth of spare time on my new homebuilt Super Stock car (nearly complete). I live North of the border so we have to do things a little more cost effectively and do most things ourselves if we want to play in the same park. My car is part of my retirement plan, racing and traveling across the continent meeting other class racers, young and old.
I do agree that some constructive thought be put towards Stock eliminator, because of the value of traditional muscle cars. How about this: JR. Stock GT Pickup. 1985-99 S-10, Ranger or Dakota 2 wheel drive, regular cab short box only. Legal weight 2600 lbs. Stock firewall, 360 cubic inch maximum, 28X9 maximum tire, cast iron year specific intake, Spec. 600cfm carburetor with adapter or 1/2 inch spacer, bolt on traction device only, 3 speed automatic. Cross breeding of differentials allowed (no aluminum). No hood scoops and must have steel bumpers and spec. mufflers. Engine rules would be to stock eliminator spec. for year of engine (except carburetor) All vehicles would retain stock interior, functional windows, stock fuel tanks, stock battery location. Rollcage mounted to frame (6 locations minimum). Must be clean and presentable in appearance and function or DQ.
We all know that any of these trucks are plentiful and affordable. They will be rear wheel drive (conventional) and all will accept a V8 with conversion parts available. All competitors will be able to be on a level playing field with trying to put the power to the ground. 600 CFM would be spec. displacement allows trucks to be fast and mufflers keep the challenge up. Appearance will enhance degree of presentation to attract attention to participation. These trucks are still generational and applicable to relative age groups. There should be no reason why an average individual could not put a reliable,cost effective,professional appearing program like this together with a group of friends at home.
Just a thought and a bunch of understanding for your initial post. Only difference, trucks, rear wheel drive and rollbars. MB

[Dick Butler]

Maurice, now your talking. Thanks for thinking outside the box with me.
Jeff, No I did not mean FWD. I am looking for a rear wheel drive, simple , less expensive car that could be a "starter car" into Stock. (when neon was mentioned by others did not even think of FWD).( Thats another dilution of racing by NHRA)
Lets face it I am not racing, and my interest is "Heads Up" racing . I just think there needs to be a less expensive Class alternative. Not just a Saturday Bracket race. That is failing on its own. Only reason for this post direction was an alternative to the "Spec motor" class (Like old Modified eliminator) Question posed was if there might be a car ,(not to interested in a truck) that could fit the bill.
I bet if a big name pushed this class it would work.

[MAURICE BLENDHEIM]

Dick... The reasoning behind the small truck is, the so called "big 3" all would be represented. These trucks are full framed and that would gives the builder a solid platform to work with and there is one for sale in every neighborhood or local paper (affordable). You would have an engine package of 360", even Jeff Lee could put a 360 AMC in a Dodge Dakota and have fun. The construction would be more "do it yourself" and would be encouraging for others to become interested. Limitations with tires, traction devices and mufflers will be challenging to work with across the board. If someone goes over the top with the engine, they might not be able to make it hook. You would maintain stock interiors, fuel tanks, bumpers and battery location for costs and to make the minimum weight thing a challenge. Maybe 2600 lbs. including driver (because some have more belt loops than others). You'd have heavy driver-light truck or light driver-heavy truck. Engine could be flat top piston, say 1969-70 spec. 600 cfm. it would be a simple and easy to maintain and understand. You could have a lobe maximum on camshaft, roller rockers allowed, maybe have a aftermarket out of the box dual plane intake to work with the 600. It would all have to fit under the stock hood. If there was enough interest and participation there would be a new level of challenge. It would have to be run independently somehow at maybe divisional races with its own eliminator, it would most likely be very heads up based. Appearance and Presentation would be a priority because it's the "New Show", it would be economically fast and easy to get involved with. With the right initial purchase and proper approach afterwards, you should be able to be in the program for $8000.00-$12,000. If a person doesn't seem like that is reasonable, I'd suggest maybe mini-golf or quilting. NHRA had Pro Stock truck, we seen some of the first races back in the day and when my daughter wanted her first vehicle it had to be a S-10. She had a picture frame in her room with Haas, Lingenfelter and her S-10. So that tells you that if the show is good, youth can have their interest sparked. Come to think about it, that was some of the best racing I have ever seen. That was the last positive creation the sanctioning body has done and it became so popular and competitive they had to stop its growth.

Everyone has a different level of affordability, if a program like this were to evolve you would always expect to have someone pay their way to the top, but they could still lose final round.
By the way Dick "the biggest name" is the membership of this association, we all pay our non tax refundable dues every year. MB

[Billy Nees]

Dick, when are you going to just stop with the crap?
There's loads of "entry level" combos out there in the guide. For some reason you seem to just resent me calling things "dime rockets"!
Basically, anything from N/S on down is still built like an old Jr. Stocker.

[Mike Taylor 3601]

The truck ideal sounds very much like crate motor stocker to me.
Pure stock is still basically the same as a stocker was before 1987 except have to have mufflers,so anyone wants to race like they did before valve springs,duration,overlap,electric water pumps,aftermarket trans.etc.rules were changed pure stock is your class ,but I forgot how many people can't do that it's IHRA LOL they are missing out on good place to race.
Mike Taylor 3601

[Dick Butler]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Dick, when are you going to just stop with the crap?
There's loads of "entry level" combos out there in the guide. For some reason you seem to just resent me calling things "dime rockets"!
Basically, anything from N/S on down is still built like an old Jr. Stocker.

I will not negatively respond, Billy. my Crap is in hopes of something more positive and I will end my comments on this thread. Thanks for reading though. Sorry you are "testy" about the dime rocket term used by many others before I used it in my post.

Billy, How many cars are in the country which run N/S on down? Maybe that is an indicator of their appeal to a new person. I thought if ONE newer or even older car could be identified by you people with understanding of the combinations maybe it could be popularized and pushed to be a popular point of entry.