wrong spec submitted by MOPAR

[Alan Roehrich]

It's too bad a "clerical error" got someone DQ'd.


The flip side is that I check all my parts against the blueprint guide from NHRA. Jimmy Bridges does my heads, and he checks everything he does, every chamber and every port, my heads have Jimmy's cc numbers all over them when I get them. I check the valves before I ever give them to Jimmy, and then he and Chris check them again. That's the great thing about having a guy like Jimmy do your stuff. Jimmy will tell you that "if you get torn down, I'll be there like Johnny on the Spot".

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Could be the vendor (chances are MOPAR didn't actually make the valves.) missed the spec. Can't blame MOPAR. It's the builder.

As I understand this, we're talking about measuring the head of the valve. If so, I for one would like to see Mopar's Magical Mystery Technique for acquiring this measurement.

Sounds more like.... "put any size valve in it and we'll issue the paper work to cover your arse."

[NewHemi]

There were numerous tech spec errors on the first generation Drag Paks in 2009.

We kept waiting for next tech bulletin:
Titanium retains; not allowed.
Piston dome height; wrong
Rocker arm ratio: wrong
etc.
etc.

But we knew what the specs read.

And where necessary, we got parts like the piston, that matched the specs. And since in the case of rocker arms, there weren't even any after market parts even being made. So stock factory rockers were all that we could run. And we just ran them and hoped.

Finally all of the spec wrinkles on the 2009 were ironed out.

But, as hard as the guys at the Drag Pak project at Mopar worked, there aren't enough of them, nor is this their only project.

I am not offering any kind of excuse for their oversight on the spec. It shouldn't have happened, but I can see how it did.

David
The New Hemi Guy

[David Barton]

Originally Posted by Andys dad

I know Arrow built these as good as any engine builder out there - they just did not know MOPAR made a mistake - they used the valve which was identifed to go in the heads - stock size for a Gen IV viper engine - The TI sheet was submitted to NHRA after the engine building started - the valves used were appearently incorrectly measured by MOPAR engineering - used a blue print to figure out how to do it - LMFAO

Ron

It sounds like Arrow is not up to speed on how racing NHRA Stock Eliminator works. I don't doubt they know how to build engines, but they really should have reviewed the spec sheets provided on NHRA's web site. Actually, they should have been one of the first people to point out the mistake if there was one.

I can guarantee you that if I built the engine I would have checked the spec sheet instead of blaming Mopar. Sure, maybe they submitted the wrong info, but the fact is that the rules were in writing and that is what we go by in NHRA.

[Andys dad]

Originally Posted by David Barton

It sounds like Arrow is not up to speed on how racing NHRA Stock Eliminator works. I don't doubt they know how to build engines, but they really should have reviewed the spec sheets provided on NHRA's web site. Actually, they should have been one of the first people to point out the mistake if there was one.

I can guarantee you that if I built the engine I would have checked the spec sheet instead of blaming Mopar. Sure, maybe they submitted the wrong info, but the fact is that the rules were in writing and that is what we go by in NHRA.

OK - I will make one last comment - there was no spec sheet.........get it.......the specs were not published until after the engines were built..... I am not sure how that process worked....if I could delete this thread I would - I was only defending Dave - sorry - my humble apologies to all of you top flight engine builders who know so much more than anyone else


Ron

[Tom P]

Don't the OEM's usually measure differently than the total OD of the valve? I have seen the 428 CJ being called 2.06" in old Ford internal documents instead of 2.09".

[Hemi Moose]

I was just thinking, does anyone know which Drag Pak Challenger it was...the Hemi or V-10 that got tagged?

[Andys dad]

Yes it was the V10

BTW - all of the V10s were/are really nice cars from MOPAR



I hope it turns out to be as good of an investment as it has been fun

Ron

[SS Engine Guy]

Trusting the supplier to do the right thing is the wrong thing to do. The builder should always verify what can and can't be done with tech. Usually in the form of a letter. (however, in the past few years, even a letter isn't worth the paper its written on). There lies the problem. Tech has been over ruled so many times that its all BS. I have freshened many "legal" pieces that had the proper # as per tech and were built totally different than the spec or intention of the rule. Its not hard to stamp letters/numbers/logos on parts.
Like Alan, I have had parts held for long periods of time, finally approved and then notified weeks and even months later that the approval was void. I have made it right by re-doing parts, no charge, even to the point of buying the newly re-defined part at my own expence along with machine work and other parts that were necessary to make this piece "legal" and make it work correctly. Then watch what I was NOT allowed to do go right thru teardown without a word said.
As much engineering and design as was supposed to be done on these super car engines (Ford,Mopar and probably Chev.) there is no excuse for any of these people to be dq'ed. Except for the fact that there is apparantly a lack of knowledge as to the amount of blueprint time required to build a truely fast and completely legal S/SS combination under the rules and guidelines set forth by the santioning bodies. Also, a lack of communication between manufacturers and tech. The attitude of building a regular car seems to be: put it out there and we will work on the problems as they arise. Any dealer tech can tell you stories about the amount of tech bullitins, recalls, replace it free only if the customer complains enough, etc...

Sorry for the long post but I know what its like trying to get a straight answer from aftermarket suppliers and from tech depts. Also, I didn't know there were different ways of measuring the diameter of a valve.

[dwydendorf]

I was involved with the teardown of the Fords last year and in their case, part of the problem involves the way the specs are sent to NHRA in the 21st century. Now all the automakers have converted to metric (remember that?) and all the specs have to be converted to Inches. Stop and think about how much effort has to go into sending in the tech specs now, as opposed to how it used to be. It is not hard to understand why the car manufacturers don't send in all the specs for every car they make. Sometimes conversions are miscalculated and the problems begin. Most of the racers with the new cars are not doing their own engine work, so it is easy to understand how problems can compound.. How about giving everyone involved a little slack. It is not as simple nowadays to just send NHRA the specs as it used to be. Maybe it is time for NHRA tech to get in the 21st century and use the new metric specs. How many would like to see this?