Crate Engines in NHRA?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Myron Piatek

One other advantage to crate motors is that for many people, it's less expensive and a lot easier to find, as well as tune, a Holley carb as opposed to a Thermoquad or Quadrajet.

Myron, I agree, but only to a certain extent.

But, if you want to find parts, you can find them. All you have to do is look. Yeah, some are easier to find than others. And some are cheaper than others.

As far as carburetors go, it doesn't matter what carburetor you have to run, you're not going to buy one out of the box at the parts house, or buy a used one, throw a kit in it, and go fast. You're going to have one of the carburetor guys build you one. From there, tuning isn't that hard, regardless of what it is. If you chose a good carburetor guy, he's going to talk you right through tuning it.

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Now, a current Stock Eliminator engine IS a well scienced race piece, I agree completely on that point. Actually, that's part of my point. You can't go BUY a crate motor, put it in, and be competitive. You still have to do exactly the same thing to a crate motor. At least, you do if you want to go fast. And it costs the same. The ONLY advantage to a crate motor, expense or difficulty wise, is not having to search for a few castings.



I can sympathize with Chipper, having spent his money, and now being invested in something he's going to have a hard time racing. I hate to see it happen, to anyone.

Agreed, realisticaly, I can`t imagine that a pair of heads and an iron Q Jet intake & carb for a 77 Camaro 350 can be that hard or expensive to find, anywhere in North America. It certainly isn`t like trying to find Max Wedge or Hemi cores. To most people, low HP smogger motor stuff is scrap metal value, pricewise.My own car is a 1 year only, stick only combo, yet I was able to easily find 6 pairs of cyl. heads, 4 intakes, and 5 carbs, all the correct number stuff for next to nothing at swap meets, Craigsist, car forums, and wrecking yards. I gotta think there were many many more 77 350 Chevs produced, and likely the head & intakes were also used in other years.

[Dwight Southerland]

Alan and Rory, I do not disagree with most of everything you said. However, throwing another engine spec into the mix and another class formula is certainly not going to deteriorate the state of the class. And Alan, the point is not that the replacement parts are necessaily better, it's that the parts are not "stock" like Rory's production stuff is. If you spec a small block Gen I 350 Chevrolet with flat top pistons, a .450/.460 camshaft, 062 or 182 Vortec heads and allow a 750 Holley with an unmodified aftermarket manifold, then tag a relatively correct power number to it, what is the difference for tech, for classification or for the competition event?

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Now, a current Stock Eliminator engine IS a well scienced race piece, I agree completely on that point. Actually, that's part of my point. You can't go BUY a crate motor, put it in, and be competitive. You still have to do exactly the same thing to a crate motor. At least, you do if you want to go fast. And it costs the same. The ONLY advantage to a crate motor, expense or difficulty wise, is not having to search for a few castings.

If you build a new crate motor, and you don't put the trick stuff in it, like race bred pistons, big pushrods, and the rest, it'll be a slug. All of that stuff has nothing at all to do with the argument against crate motors, that's just a matter of racers cheating, and NHRA deciding to allow it rather than police the class. They don't want to tech to prevent it, so they let it in.

NHRA has already proven they're not going to define and police anything. So why add a bunch of new stuff that they're not going to police and define better than what we already have? THAT is the problem with crate engines. They can come up with a new engine, on paper, with parts from a catalog, assign a soft factor to it, and start all over again, any time they want. NHRA will not add crate classes, they don't want more classes. Honestly, the majority racers don't want them either, and the class can't stand it.

For crate engines to get in NHRA, they'd be added into the current classes. We already have bogus paper crate cars, we really don't need any more of them.

I can sympathize with Chipper, having spent his money, and now being invested in something he's going to have a hard time racing. I hate to see it happen, to anyone.

I was going to be nice and just ignore this post but its snowing and all my "Crate Motor" parts are at the machine shop so your going to get a blasting...

Crate Motors really came into the picture in IHRA to help sell GM crate engines. They are nothing more than a replacement engine for a muscle car thats over the counter and has a warrenty. So when your tired old 350 295hp motor gives up...you can go to the dealer and purchace a 350 300hp or go for the 330hp 350 that has nothing more than 96 and up GM Vortec PICKUP TRUCK HEADS...yes we race with tow vehicle heads. The cool thing is that Mopar and Ford jumped on board and had their own crate engines...so now we have 60's racing all over again with the big 3. Its not like we are lightly factored either. Have a look at some of the combo's before you even talk about soft factoring.

Im sorry that you are a hard nose die hard stock eliminator racer that cant see outside of rotten cast iron intakes and garbage 40 year old carbs that have the right numbers. This is a thing of the past. I would love nothing more than to go buy a 396 and build it to stock eliminator glory....even a 327 or 350...but the parts are not out there anymore. Go to a local wrecking yard and try to find one of these engines...they are not there. And if you do find a usable core in the local paper they want your first born child to own it. And really what is the difference if they allow crate engines in NHRA? You think it matters when the tree is coming down? No it doesnt. You need to step back and look at the whole picture...never mind heads up runs and "class eliminations"...all stockers weather it be a 350 295hp or a crate 350 330hp ITS A BRACKET RACE....a glorified bracket race with rules and a 30x9 slick. WAKE UP.

Im not interested in having an internet war with you. Im sure your a great guy and everyone wants to give you a high five and hero biscut because you have a real stocker but there are young guys like myself who find it a bit easier to build and find a crate engine. You are right about one thing...we dont buy them at the dealer plunk them in and race. It takes alot of tweeking to make it run just the same as any stocker engine. I only know of one guy who actually bought a crate motor at the dealer and then took it apart and changed it over to run stock. I take pride in the combo I run and alot of my friends also run the crate combos and love it.

So instead of bashing and talking about something you really dont know much about...talk to some "crate engine" racers and ask us about it instead of not allowing us to play in your sand box. If IHRA folds up we would have nowhere to go...and im not going to build a complete new combo to race NHRA. And its not like there is only 6 guys in the world who race crate motor...there is thousands. So instead of being bias and saying "NO WAY THIS CANT HAPPEN" think outside the box a little bit brother!

Geesh...you guys dont even complain this much about a stocker with a power adder

[Ed Wright]

It's not likely at all to happen, but due to NHRA not wanting to add classes. Not guys here not liking them.

I still don't understand building a car limited to either association alone.

Like some bracket racers around here that run an 1/8th mile track at home, gearing the car too low to run 1/4 mile. Why would anybody do that?

[Alan Roehrich]

Blast away if it makes you feel good, I could care less.

If you can't find parts to build a 396/375, or a 255/350, you just aren't looking. Sorry, I'm not buying that line. It's a crock. I can go out and drag up all of the heads, cranks, intakes and carburetors to build either in a couple of days. Anyone that can't just isn't looking.

When we had the G/S car, I ended up with an extra set of the good 441 heads, an intake, and 3 carburetors, almost by accident. I passed on 2-3 steel cranks. We didn't even have the car for more than a year, and I had enough stuff I found just fooling around AFTER the car was bought to build another complete engine. I didn't even have $300 in all of the castings and carburetors, and could have had the cranks for $100 each.

You don't even have to hunt for anything to build a 396 now, GM sells the new replacement heads and intakes, Quickfuel sells the carburetors, Dart is even making a run of 396 blocks. There are 3-4 companies that have all of the 6223 cranks you can use, or call Bullet, they have them prepped and ready to go. So the whine about finding parts for a 396 is a complete joke. You can buy it all over the counter just like a crate motor. So, yeah, if you want to take the easy route, and be sure you have a place to race, you can do it. There's you a "crate motor" that fits in a regular class, so you're just clean out of excuses snow. You don't even have to get your hands dirty, open the classifieds, or do anything but pick up the phone. Jeg's or Summit will deliver most of it to your door, and you can take it to the machine shop just like your 330-350.

And if you DON'T want to build one all aftermarket, 454 blocks are everywhere, have one sleeved, it's been done that way for years. You can buy an original 163 intake on ebay for $200 or less. A 3310 Holley you can buy new, or buy one of the old ones off ebay. You can find 840 heads on ebay for under $1k, all you have to do is open your eyes and look. The same pieces will build you a 427, just don't sleeve the block down.

I was working on crate motors before they ever GOT to IHRA, for other racing series, you ain't telling me anything about crate motors I don't already know.

If it makes you feel better, go ahead and blast some more, I can take it just fine. Some of us DO care about class eliminations and heads up racing. And most of us with any common sense at all see that NHRA is not at all likely to put crate motors in their own classes. They just took the fuel injected cars OUT of their own classes, and put them in the original classes. And they put the new Ford crate motor cars in the regular classes, too.

Think outside the box? Are we going to find a new paradigm too? I just love cliches, they're so useful. How about we fix what is INSIDE the box FIRST, before we go outside the box or dump a bunch more stuff in it? There's a new paradigm for you.

[Mark Callanan]

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro

I was going to be nice and just ignore this post but its snowing and all my "Crate Motor" parts are at the machine shop so your going to get a blasting...

Crate Motors really came into the picture in IHRA to help sell GM crate engines. They are nothing more than a replacement engine for a muscle car thats over the counter and has a warrenty. So when your tired old 350 295hp motor gives up...you can go to the dealer and purchace a 350 300hp or go for the 330hp 350 that has nothing more than 96 and up GM Vortec PICKUP TRUCK HEADS...yes we race with tow vehicle heads. The cool thing is that Mopar and Ford jumped on board and had their own crate engines...so now we have 60's racing all over again with the big 3. Its not like we are lightly factored either. Have a look at some of the combo's before you even talk about soft factoring.

Im sorry that you are a hard nose die hard stock eliminator racer that cant see outside of rotten cast iron intakes and garbage 40 year old carbs that have the right numbers. This is a thing of the past. I would love nothing more than to go buy a 396 and build it to stock eliminator glory....even a 327 or 350...but the parts are not out there anymore. Go to a local wrecking yard and try to find one of these engines...they are not there. And if you do find a usable core in the local paper they want your first born child to own it. And really what is the difference if they allow crate engines in NHRA? You think it matters when the tree is coming down? No it doesnt. You need to step back and look at the whole picture...never mind heads up runs and "class eliminations"...all stockers weather it be a 350 295hp or a crate 350 330hp ITS A BRACKET RACE....a glorified bracket race with rules and a 30x9 slick. WAKE UP.

Im not interested in having an internet war with you. Im sure your a great guy and everyone wants to give you a high five and hero biscut because you have a real stocker but there are young guys like myself who find it a bit easier to build and find a crate engine. You are right about one thing...we dont buy them at the dealer plunk them in and race. It takes alot of tweeking to make it run just the same as any stocker engine. I only know of one guy who actually bought a crate motor at the dealer and then took it apart and changed it over to run stock. I take pride in the combo I run and alot of my friends also run the crate combos and love it.

So instead of bashing and talking about something you really dont know much about...talk to some "crate engine" racers and ask us about it instead of not allowing us to play in your sand box. If IHRA folds up we would have nowhere to go...and im not going to build a complete new combo to race NHRA. And its not like there is only 6 guys in the world who race crate motor...there is thousands. So instead of being bias and saying "NO WAY THIS CANT HAPPEN" think outside the box a little bit brother!

Geesh...you guys dont even complain this much about a stocker with a power adder

Just curious
Since you are from Canada where do you race that?
Are you a class racer or a weekend racer at a local track?

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro

I was going to be nice and just ignore this post but its snowing and all my "Crate Motor" parts are at the machine shop so your going to get a blasting...

Crate Motors really came into the picture in IHRA to help sell GM crate engines. They are nothing more than a replacement engine for a muscle car thats over the counter and has a warrenty. So when your tired old 350 295hp motor gives up...you can go to the dealer and purchace a 350 300hp or go for the 330hp 350 that has nothing more than 96 and up GM Vortec PICKUP TRUCK HEADS...yes we race with tow vehicle heads. The cool thing is that Mopar and Ford jumped on board and had their own crate engines...so now we have 60's racing all over again with the big 3. Its not like we are lightly factored either. Have a look at some of the combo's before you even talk about soft factoring.

Im sorry that you are a hard nose die hard stock eliminator racer that cant see outside of rotten cast iron intakes and garbage 40 year old carbs that have the right numbers. This is a thing of the past. I would love nothing more than to go buy a 396 and build it to stock eliminator glory....even a 327 or 350...but the parts are not out there anymore. Go to a local wrecking yard and try to find one of these engines...they are not there. And if you do find a usable core in the local paper they want your first born child to own it. And really what is the difference if they allow crate engines in NHRA? You think it matters when the tree is coming down? No it doesnt. You need to step back and look at the whole picture...never mind heads up runs and "class eliminations"...all stockers weather it be a 350 295hp or a crate 350 330hp ITS A BRACKET RACE....a glorified bracket race with rules and a 30x9 slick. WAKE UP.

Im not interested in having an internet war with you. Im sure your a great guy and everyone wants to give you a high five and hero biscut because you have a real stocker but there are young guys like myself who find it a bit easier to build and find a crate engine. You are right about one thing...we dont buy them at the dealer plunk them in and race. It takes alot of tweeking to make it run just the same as any stocker engine. I only know of one guy who actually bought a crate motor at the dealer and then took it apart and changed it over to run stock. I take pride in the combo I run and alot of my friends also run the crate combos and love it.

So instead of bashing and talking about something you really dont know much about...talk to some "crate engine" racers and ask us about it instead of not allowing us to play in your sand box. If IHRA folds up we would have nowhere to go...and im not going to build a complete new combo to race NHRA. And its not like there is only 6 guys in the world who race crate motor...there is thousands. So instead of being bias and saying "NO WAY THIS CANT HAPPEN" think outside the box a little bit brother!

Geesh...you guys dont even complain this much about a stocker with a power adder

i'm a younger guy too, and couldn't disagree with you more