How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???

[Alan Roehrich]

Art, it doesn't matter what you spend on parts, that's not why they pay you contingency money. It's called "contingency SPONSOR program" for a reason. They don't pay you contingency money just because you spent money on their parts. They pay you contingency money to advertise for them. If they don't think a single pass is a good advertising value, that is their decision, you have no right to expect to be able to force them to pay.

Buying parts does not automatically entitle you to get paid, I've bought a ton of parts from people who do not pay contingency at all, simply because it was the best part for the race car. Companies can elect to pay or not, it's a free country, and a free market economy, at least to an extent. They can pay out money any way they see fit, or not at all. See, it is their money, it is not your money, or my money. It belongs to them.

This "entitlement" mentality is amusing. Especially from people who call themselves "conservative" outside of racing.

You know, you can always vote with your wallet, if you don't like the way contingency sponsors want the program where they GIVE you their money structured, you can always buy your parts somewhere else, and tell them why.

I'm fully aware that a lot of the singles for class are stick cars. Some of my best friends run stick cars. We ran one too, for a while, and may run one again. If we have a single for class, and they don't want to pay us, well, it was their money, not ours.

I personally couldn't care less how many singles you or anyone else gets for class, it does not matter to me. It does not cost me a dime.

All I'm doing is telling you what people in the business are faced with. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it, you don't have to believe me.

But you'll have to deal with the reality of the situation, like it or not, sooner or later.

See, I carry the "conservative" mentality over to racing, too. I have no right to tell other people how to spend their money, it is not my money, it is their money.

Do you feel you have a right to tell people how they can spend their money? Because by demanding contingency sponsors pay the way YOU want them to pay is telling other people how to spend their money. Are you sure you have the right to do that?

In any event, you guys just go ahead and do or say whatever you want. I'm not going to contribute to dragging this post off topic anymore. You can deal with your persecution complexes however you want. I had nothing at all to do with this change, no one asked me anything. I seriously doubt any of the racers had anything to do with it, but feel free to feel like everyone is out to get you if that's what you want. We're going racing, so I'm going back out to the shop to work on our old worn out slow junk, and you guys can deal with this situation any way you see fit.

Ken, I apologize for dragging this off topic, I'll contribute no further to hijacking this thread.

[B Aceves]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Art, it doesn't matter what you spend on parts, that's not why they pay you contingency money. It's called "contingency SPONSOR program" for a reason. They don't pay you contingency money just because you spent money on their parts. They pay you contingency money to advertise for them. If they don't think a single pass is a good advertising value, that is their decision, you have no right to expect to be able to force them to pay.

Buying parts does not automatically entitle you to get paid, I've bought a ton of parts from people who do not pay contingency at all, simply because it was the best part for the race car. Companies can elect to pay or not, it's a free country, and a free market economy, at least to an extent. They can pay out money any way they see fit, or not at all. See, it is their money, it is not your money, or my money. It belongs to them.

This "entitlement" mentality is amusing. Especially from people who call themselves "conservative" outside of racing.

You know, you can always vote with your wallet, if you don't like the way contingency sponsors want the program where they GIVE you their money structured, you can always buy your parts somewhere else, and tell them why.

I'm fully aware that a lot of the singles for class are stick cars. Some of my best friends run stick cars. We ran one too, for a while, and may run one again. If we have a single for class, and they don't want to pay us, well, it was their money, not ours.

I personally couldn't care less how many singles you or anyone else gets for class, it does not matter to me. It does not cost me a dime.

All I'm doing is telling you what people in the business are faced with. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it, you don't have to believe me.

But you'll have to deal with the reality of the situation, like it or not, sooner or later.

See, I carry the "conservative" mentality over to racing, too. I have no right to tell other people how to spend their money, it is not my money, it is their money.

Do you feel you have a right to tell people how they can spend their money? Because by demanding contingency sponsors pay the way YOU want them to pay is telling other people how to spend their money. Are you sure you have the right to do that?

Alan,
Some of this makes perfect sense BUT... Why do they require we use the parts then if its just a advertisement ? Take Jiffy Tite for example, they require you spend at least 200$ per car with fittings. A bunch of manufactures only pay for a Ellim win but not class.
And I doubt very much all the PRO payouts with Contingency they even think of using those parts. My point is, Its the marketing strategy being used and the dollar amount they spend on return, 5,500$ is a ton of money for them to dish out so has NHRA lowered the cost of that in this situation to help ?? Doubt it

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by B Aceves

Alan,
Some of this makes perfect sense BUT... Why do they require we use the parts then if its just a advertisement ? Take Jiffy Tite for example, they require you spend at least 200$ per car with fittings. A bunch of manufactures only pay for a Ellim win but not class.
And I doubt very much all the PRO payouts with Contingency they even think of using those parts. My point is, Its the marketing strategy being used and the dollar amount they spend on return, 5,500$ is a ton of money for them to dish out so has NHRA lowered the cost of that in this situation to help ?? Doubt it

Bob,
They require you to use the part because they're using your performance to sell their parts. The idea is "Bob won this race running our parts, if you buy our parts, you'll be a winner too". Sure, they want to know you're spending money with them, too. But they want proof that you're running their parts just as much to prove their parts are on winners as they do to make sure you spent money with them. It really isn't good for them if they pay you, but you tell all your friends that you're really running something else.

And if you'll note, I think I did a pretty fair job of calling NHRA out for being a big part of what has happened. I doubt I'm high on NHRA's "number one fan list", either.

Again, I'm not on ANYONE'S side. I merely said I can see where the contingency sponsors could feel like they weren't getting their money's worth out of singles. I never even said I agree with it. I just said I can see where they're coming from.

I do not have a single shred of evidence that this was engineered by NHRA to cheat the racers, nor where it was lobbied for by a select group of racers for their own benefit. I have not seen anyone produce any evidence of either being the case.

[B Aceves]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Bob,
They require you to use the part because they're using your performance to sell their parts. The idea is "Bob won this race running our parts, if you buy our parts, you'll be a winner too". Sure, they want to know you're spending money with them, too. But they want proof that you're running their parts just as much to prove their parts are on winners as they do to make sure you spent money with them. It really isn't good for them if they pay you, but you tell all your friends that you're really running something else.

And if you'll note, I think I did a pretty fair job of calling NHRA out for being a big part of what has happened. I doubt I'm high on NHRA's "number one fan list", either.

Again, I'm not on ANYONE'S side. I merely said I can see where the contingency sponsors could feel like they weren't getting their money's worth out of singles. I never even said I agree with it. I just said I can see where they're coming from.

I do not have a single shred of evidence that this was engineered by NHRA to cheat the racers, nor where it was lobbied for by a select group of racers for their own benefit. I have not seen anyone produce any evidence of either being the case.

Well I was not trying to come off sounding as if I was saying your taking sides Not one Bit !! If anything right now we need to stop making personal attacks and all this negative and turn it into postive energy to come up with a solution or at least make us feel like we can help, The problem is these decisions come as a surprise and sudden and right now with all the other situations going on this did not help matters one bit.

[Yo Ken]

It's a shame that members can not stay on topic, please do not post unless you have a suggestion for improving class eliminations.

Art, don't take this personal, but I am tired of your insinuations about how I run this forum. If you feel you are being treated differently than others, you are mistaken. You seem to have a (why is everyone always picking on me complex), Its not all about you.

You have made post after post slamming the new program, claiming its all about how the other guy will get hurt, frankly It's getting old. If you have nothing positive to contribute to this topic, please do not post. You can post you displeasure with everything that is wrong with NHRA, me and anything else you like in your own thread. I am sure you have plenty of fans that agree with you.

I will remove every post that I deem to be not on topic. For the rest of you who didn't know why I made this post, you know now. It seems that some members do not want the new system to work, which is fine, but this is not the thread for that.


Alan, do not worry about it, I understand what you are trying to do.


Ken Miele

[Ed Wright]

People have mentioned combining stick & automatics. Since the performance difference pretty much no longer exists, what would be the down side? More heads ups, fewer classes to pay. Who, other than guys wanting to avoid heads ups would object? I know of at least one guy that put a stick in his car to stop heads ups he could not win. The shear number of SS classes has gotten way out of hand Not as much of a downside since winning class no longer has anything to do with qualifying. Evan has several good ideas.

[Dick Butler]

Alan, Extremely good post. Thank you.

[Bobby Fazio]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

People have mentioned combining stick & automatics. Since the performance difference pretty much no longer exists, what would be the down side? More heads ups, fewer classes to pay. Who, other than guys wanting to avoid heads ups would object? I know of at least one guy that put a stick in his car to stop heads ups he could not win. The shear number of SS classes has gotten way out of hand Not as much of a downside since winning class no longer has anything to do with qualifying. Evan has several good ideas.

Ed there were 2 stick cars and Chevy A GO GO modified stick car out of an 80 car field at the Reading Nationals last year. I don't think 2 cars avoiding heads-up runs is the problem. We need more ESPN2 exposure.. how do we get it? Tell me who to petition to and I will.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by SStock1373

Ed there were 2 stick cars and Chevy A GO GO modified stick car out of an 80 car field at the Reading Nationals last year. I don't think 2 cars avoiding heads-up runs is the problem. We need more ESPN2 exposure.. how do we get it? Tell me who to petition to and I will.

Bobby, I'm talking about singles for class. More races, cuts trophy costs and fewer classes for contingency sponsors to pay. But the one I know is probably not the only one avoiding heads up pairings.

[dahkahuna]

change the wt break inSuper Stock to 6.00 to15.00 pounds per hp, for both SS &GT eliminate modified classes , Super Stock is for factory production avaliable cars with with production spec engines..Modified belongs in comp.This format would make for closer racing with hadicaped e.t.'s of 8sec to12 sec Stock because of its entry level draw must have 1 pound breaks from 6.00 to 20.00 pounds per hp. With handicaped e.t.s of 9.00 to 16.00 both stick and auto run together all auto cars get the 3 speedsautos. concerning the modified class they can easily build a Super Stock spec'ed engine much cheaper or go and run heads up in comp.Nhra needs to get their hand out of the cookie jar and let all the contigency monies go to the guys that support the SEMA manufacturers.Let the SEMA sponsors set up either a cash or voucher system handled directly between them and the racer and have flexibility as to sponsor when or where it benifits their products marketing either by a race or geographical area. LET THEM SET THEIR SPONSORSHIP however they want FLEXIBILITY IS THE KEY.......just my 2 cents