How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???

[Ken Miele]

Art,

With all due respect, can we please stay on topic. Lets talk about what we can do about helping class racing. The back and forth bickering serves no purpose in this thread. I understand as everyone else does by your multitude of posts on this subject that you are not happy with the new program, but that's not what this thread is about.

Prospective sponsors that might read this forum do not want to see arguing, they would like to see alternatives and suggestions.

[Michael Beard]

The problem is, if we were to decide to take a hit, it makes us less competitive with the combinations in the class that decide not to take a hit. (...) Records don't pay points or money, and they'll never pay nearly as much of either as you can win for winning a race.

First, that goes back to the long-debated issues of the AHFS and the problems with how well combinations are factored. I've been saying for years now, take the years of data we have accumulated, and refactor EVERYTHING just once, right now, and then you could leave it virtually untouched for quite some time, and nobody would have to "protect their combo" anymore. The whole point of the AHFS is that if it's fast enough to get HP, then the combo is not factored correctly in the first place. As usual, don't hate the player, hate the game, but until they change the game, people will continue to play the game... which is completely contrary to the performance enthusiast's goals.

Secondly, the point was made in regards to Records based on actually having a solid contingency program, so yes, Records would pay, possibly significantly. And hoping not to paint with too broad of a brush or offend anyone, but realistically the record-setter go-fast guy and the eliminator winner are not always the same guys. Man! Remember the cam wars? (I was born too late, but heard stories) Creating some *serious* incentives for both Class and National Records and then actually *marketing* them? I know, crazy talk...

Re: FWD cars going away... I think this happened for multiple reasons. The consolidating of the classes went overboard, creating weight breaks so spread out to the point that the weight differences would never be seriously considered for the upper-level 'regular' Stock classes. They could've consolidated the classes without cutting them THAT deeply. I think another major consideration, one that affected a significant number of slower RWD classes as well, was the elimination of Deep Staging. That decision was helped along by the "majority rules" thought process... and people wonder why there are so many cars 11-sec and quicker now. "Careful what you wish for."

I won't rehash it here, but there were plenty of ideas posted earlier this winter about how to *reasonably* consolidate classes. But again, the majority didn't want anything to do with it, so you get something else handed to you.

Also something that I've promoted for years was simple *marketing* of the classes. Announcers have a considerable amount of control over the crowd, and they can leverage that. Presentation is key. I'll say it again: watch Larry Pfister's Horsepower Heaven videos, and love it or hate it, the *presentation* of PINKS All Out drew massive crowds and TV ratings to watch cars no faster and certainly not as unique as S/SS cars. And this conversation is nothing new. I remember talking about it in the '90s. Make the *choice* to market S/SS racing properly, and the sky is the limit.

$.02,

[danny waters sr]

Michael ,You are right about the announcers having a lot to do with almost "every class.".. I notice at ALL the Nationals i have attended (both HRA's) , when the pros are done the announcer would tell everyone in the stands to go to the pits and get autographs and pics and t-shirts and ect.......... The croud then follows the announcers advice and Wa- La the majority of the croud is gone from the stands and here come the sportsman cars and drivers with hardly no spectators.......PUBLICITY is in DEMAND for these classes to get any spectator interest ,which in turn will draw sponsors back to the scene.....Makes since ,don't it ??? Used to be called PROMOTIONS...........

[Bernie Cunningham]

Thanks Kenny, I was thinking the same thing when I came up to your post. Art, you planned, built, race and own a machine for one specific reason and it worked for years, I completely understand your intentions and I'm sorry that a change has you upset. YOU Sir, actually have a combo that could WIN the National Class Championship !!! (no need to respond)

People, this is 2011, change in Class racing must occur for it to survive whether it be with or without payments. I had a long and fantastic conversation with Charlie N at NHRA today, I haven't heard him so excited about a contingency and award program for a long time. He is now aware of this post as I told him of the great, constructive ideas coming out. You all must believe that he, and the committee really do care to keep it going as Manufacturers were jumping of the cliff like lemmings, i.e. follow the leader. There was not to be any postings for the 2011 season the way it was. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The committee is comprised of major Manufactures Representitives, NHRA personnel from Technical, Marketing, Competition and others, in other words, a pretty well rounded group of savvy and smart business people.

Since the changes have been made, only a couple of days ago, one new payer has signed up along with most of last years contributors. Yea, it's kinda late but they have been conferencing and shooting a lot of ideas around, there were many ideas that didn't make it.

This message board has a say, don't be fooled otherwise, racer input is important to them and they really appreciate constructive criticism.

This year is gonna be a little painful for some, ya just can't please everyone, at least we have something in place. While I brought up a few issues to Charlie, it seems as though they had already discussed most of them, ie, bonus 5 points for a winner, rain outs would be high qualifier as it is now and each winner gaining 10 points, if no cars go down the track for whatever reason the program serves as a zero for all. Some of the ideas that he passed onto me that are still in the works would be more ND exposure for winners (pix etc.) per race, Championship jackets, ND coverage of points battles, BIGGER BONUS payouts, etc. There are more but it does seem to me that a momentum has returned to Class racing, once the manufactures see that NHRA are rolling so will they with payments that we all love so much. Keep following the money !!!! (that's my new saying cause I reckon that's how shyt gets done)

The down side is that this new format collides with an 'already in place' class schedule, the timing cause it had to happen quickly, it seems to piss a few racers off and it's not complete. I feel that this year is an improvement on an old and antiquated system that really needed fixing for some time now. It will get better but we'll all need to 'suck it up' for this year as the energy grows with the manufacturers and, most importantly, the economy. Please try to stay positive because it has been saved so far and it will need some tweaking. I'll admit that NHRA has a few problems but it seems to me that this one could, potentially, solve a few of 'em. Get ready for the HP hand outs @#$%^&*()

I believe that we and them are on a path for a better Stock and Super Stock Class program, please be patient, Rome wasn't built in a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ed Fernandez]

Quote: Some of the ideas that he passed onto me that are still in the works would be more ND exposure for winners (pix etc.) per race, Championship jackets, ND coverage of points battles, BIGGER BONUS payouts, etc. There are more but it does seem to me that a momentum has returned to Class racing, once the manufactures see that NHRA are rolling so will they with payments that we all love so much. Keep following the money !!!! (that's my new saying cause I reckon that's how shyt gets done)

Bernie,I hate to sound negative,but after all the "enhancements" we've endured over the past few years now all of a sudden a light bulb went off in the heads of these highly paid
board members,and now we're going to have the red carpet rolled out for us in the form of the above quote.
Well excuse me if I sound a little dubious about what will really happen and the motivation for their concern over our well being.
Remember Abe Lincoln's saying about being fooled.
I agree that the whole system needs an overhaul,but it seems it's on our backs that the hard work and sacrifice is being made.
If the Wallys are a problem then 1 lb breaks will help.Stop giving them away for every new gimmick they can think of.Substitute plaques for anything other than direct racing activities.
Lower the postings (pay a bit less for class wins and contingency for race wins).Half a pie is better than no pie at all.That way smaller sponsors can climb aboard.
The next one is a must.Lower the "administration fees" that Glendora charges.Just
charge enought to cover actual costs.
And stop them from keeping moneys not theirs to keep.Would you like your bank keeping
your money if it didn't like how you managed your account,within the rules set forward?
Lastly,nowhere did i hear any input from the people most affected by this second coming,mainly the racers themselves.
Back to you Bernie.

[Bernie Cunningham]

1st. Bernie,I hate to sound negative,but after all the "enhancements" we've endured over the past few years now all of a sudden a light bulb went off in the heads of these highly paid
board members,and now we're going to have the red carpet rolled out for us in the form of the above quote.
2nd. Well excuse me if I sound a little dubious about what will really happen and the motivation for their concern over our well being.
Remember Abe Lincoln's saying about being fooled.
3rd. I agree that the whole system needs an overhaul,but it seems it's on our backs that the hard work and sacrifice is being made.
4th. If the Wallys are a problem then 1 lb breaks will help.Stop giving them away for every new gimmick they can think of.Substitute plaques for anything other than direct racing activities.
5th. Lower the postings (pay a bit less for class wins and contingency for race wins).Half a pie is better than no pie at all.That way smaller sponsors can climb aboard.
6th. The next one is a must.Lower the "administration fees" that Glendora charges.Just
charge enought to cover actual costs.
7th. And stop them from keeping moneys not theirs to keep.Would you like your bank keeping
your money if it didn't like how you managed your account,within the rules set forward?
8th. Lastly,nowhere did i hear any input from the people most affected by this second coming,mainly the racers themselves.
Back to you Bernie.[/QUOTE]

Ed, your an OK guy to me even though we have never hung out together, (wished I had) it's ya 'out of the box' and serious thinking that I like, and ya trailer setup is cool LOL

I'll take this one paragragh at a time. I added some numbers and shyt so everyone can follow along, hope ya don't mind?

1st. This has absolutely nothing to do with your description, "highly paid board members" so that is moot. This is not a red carpet deal but a survival tactic.

2nd. The new Class system is in effect, like it or not, nobody in this world cares about YOUR well being. The excitement is being fueled by the payers, GET THIS INTO YA HEAD, the manufactures. Please re-read that !!!!!!!!!!! Neither I, or Class racing, were around when Abe was ! I do like him however and, like you, would have been a fun guy to hang with over a beer or two. I reckon he said something about ignorance and stupidity as well.

3rd. You're right in the first part but I fail to comprehend the second. You're not spending any time like the Committee is to come up with anything ???!!!

4th. The Wally's are not the problem, PERIOD ! However it's easy to see a saving there for NHRA. One pound weight breaks are dangerous, in my opinion. I've had to race that way already with the FI classes and I feel it to be a problem when one needs to move 300 to 400 plus pounds in a fast car on a Wednesday to change classes at a Nat. with no testing. Been there !!! Replica's are cheap and the PAYING public seem to like been yelled at while drunk at the Drag Races, "" c'mon man""!

5th. I like this, a constructive idea to share, thank you.

6th. Sorry, start your own thread or contact somebody at NHRA that'll listen to ya. LOL

7th. I'll take a guess that you mean the money that manufactures pay for posting. As usual this subject is blown out of proportion again, a few years back I posted on here, the exact requirements per the NHRA and what it gave for the privilege of being a Sponsor, every ones memory is wasted. NHRA does NOT keep the Sponsors money, the Sponsors will pay the unpaid balance at the end of the season, that is agreed upon, if they did not meet the quota of payouts, sometimes hard for a small business to do and it's designed to keep the riff raff out, they don't want a carny atmosphere going on. It will however give you a Midway space.

8th. I'm glad to see you on this subject, it's on now. Like I said, the timing sucks.

I want to help just like every one does. Gotta say though it takes me forever to type so give us some constructive thinking here!

[SS Engine Guy]

I would take all of the decision making out of the hands of the 'hra's and as a racer strike my own deal with manufacturers. That is what I do in my business and advocate that my customers do the same. Example: XXX Speed Parts Manufacturer isn't on the contingency list. I call and ask what benifit is it to them to have my car wearing their decal and running their product? I have yet to be told "nothing". Most request that I provide written or photo of win or runner up in eliminator or winner in class. Never have I been told that a single will not get anything for class. I keep very good records and could count on one hand the times that I haven't been paid in this way. Most say that they will pay whatever a similar product manufactuer is paying. Some pay in dollars and some give the choice of credit or parts. However, when playing contingency payout as outlined I have been BS'ed by the 'hra's (person or persons) that supposedly handle timely payouts more times than I could count. Therefore, I think my system works far better for me.

The contingency sponsor is paying for advertising on my car whether it be on track or on the front page of a racing publication. They aren't counting on the small amount of revenue that comes from other racers. They want the same as the car dealers want. Win on Sunday buy on Monday incentive for their money. "So and So uses X Brand and is fast and wins so the product must be good" mentality. I have no need for intermediary 'hra's to do this for me and apparantly alot of my customers implement this plan with a good success rate themselves.

I will not fool around with any company that puts limits on time of purchase unless the item has an expiration date. Over the years I have developed a good relationship with the manufacturers that I use as I know other racers and builders have done the same. They expect results from me and I expect results from them. The way a consumer/provider relationship should be.

On single runs: I have never heard a word of complaint from a manufacturer concerning this. Case in point: It is not my customers fault or mine, that he has the field in his class covered by a tenth or two and competitors change classes up or down or even build a different combo. I agree that there are some odd ball classes out there but thats what makes the world go round. The so called odd ball classes surely aren't anywhere close to as bad as some of the BS factoring we are exposed to.

In summary, I think that we as racers are going to have to do a little (actually alot) for OURSELVES in order to keep this class elimination deal and the eliminators as a whole healthy. Not rely on the opinions and decisions of others that have nothing but the dollar they can make as the sole imput they listen to when decisions are made.

[randy wilson]

just my opinion, you have to make it possible for more heads-up racing, by combining like classes with each other. There needs to be an effective way to police that doesn;t slow NHRA tech down by having involved sponsors supply a rep. for their legal or judged not legal parts. Just a thought.